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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#130351: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:17:44 PM

I mean, I think Magneto is actually a great allegory for the state of Israel, which is also built upon the worst suffering humankind can imagine and has vowed to never let it's people be hurt again, but often times goes to such extreme measures that it becomes hard to defend them.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130352: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:22:13 PM

[up][up] Well we haven’t gotten heroic Magneto yet.

The guy has been a memes of the X-Men for decades now.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#130353: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:37:01 PM

Comparing Israel and Magneto is where the mutant metaphor gets messy and kinda lazy, as has been pointed out often.

Israel is a case where a persecuted minority takes out their anger on another minority who weren't involved in the Holocaust. Magneto is striking back at present oppression and attempted genocide of mutants, and is ostensibly a minority hitting at a majority (although many readers have questioned this social balance considering how powerful comics mutants are compared to average humans.)

If plenty of works have shown, up to as recently as Falcon and the Winter Soldier, it's that most stories about violence from minorities tend to go to the constant rut of "the minority hits back at the oppressor then becomes just as bad as the oppressor" rather than the more realistically frequent "the minority finds another oppressed minority and attacks them, thus replicating the abuse from the oppressor". The former is the direction that Magneto tends to keep getting taken in too.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:37:45 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#130354: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:37:12 PM

We never got Asteroid M, which I've always felt is one of the most adaptable-to-film Magneto tragedies. We've never gotten Genosha either.

But the whole idea of him legitimately wanting to create a peaceful utopia for his people, in complete contrast to the megalomaniacal leanings he had shown in the past and everyone assumes he still has, only for that dream to be done in and betrayed by one of his own people who does only see it as an opportunity for power, force and turning oppression back onto others makes for a really great tragic story, as the sad bottom line is that his dream is entirely unsustainable even at its most altruistic.

[up] TBH, most allegories between real life and the mutant situation are messy and don't really work. I really hate the conclusion people make that Magneto is analogous to Malcolm X for similar reasons, for instance.

Wouldn't Magneto be a child if he met Steve during World War 2? That would be an interesting way to bring Magneto into the MCU, have him think highly of Captain America because he's the one who rescued him from the Holocaust.

I actually really like this idea: that Magneto could have a great deal of respect and personal esteem for Captain America, while still believing that the things Cap stands for are outdated and needed to be supplanted (violently) by himself.

It's actually something we have very little of in the MCU, come to think: villains with legitimate, truthful respect or even admiration for the heroes they fight, despite acting against them - even lethally so - the whole time. The closest we've gotten is Thanos' self-absorbed "you're almost like me, but I'm better so screw you" brand of "respect."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:45:33 AM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#130355: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:50:21 PM

Magneto on Astroid M or Avalon is something I want on film too.

Just Makima.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#130356: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:54:26 PM

I mean in the end, allegories are just that. It's still a world where people in fancy costumes fly around, smacking each other on their heads with flashy superpowers.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130357: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:02:12 PM

There was also Zemo acknowledging that Captain America was everything he claimed to be, despite Zemo's singled minded desire to destroy the Avengers and his hatred of Super Soldier on principle.

One Strip! One Strip!
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#130358: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:29:49 PM

Vincent D'Onofrio is coming back for Hawkeye as Kingpin.

https://twitter.com/bigscreenleaks/status/1418647737550217218

He even liked the tweet leaking his involvement.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#130359: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:35:04 PM

I'm happy, but I also wonder if it will be a completely new version.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130360: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:42:57 PM

Alright so thats confirmation that the Netflix stars may be reprising their roles.

Wonder who else is next.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#130362: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:46:44 PM

Oh wow!

Will be great to see Fisk out in the world. And if I remember correctly he did have a role in the "My Life As A Weapon" run we all love.

I still think Fisk needs super villain goons on his payroll to work, so maybe we'll get bullseye but I'm not holding my breath.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#130363: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:49:01 PM

"Your name is Wilson... Bohner?"

Whowho Since: May, 2012
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#130365: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:50:57 PM

The cynic in me says this will only fan the flames for NWH speculation, but I'm glad D'Onofrio is getting more work.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130366: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:52:11 PM

Admitably Bullseye would make for a great opponent against the Hawkeye's due to also being a master marksman.

Bullseye was even Hawkeye once for the Dark Avengers.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#130367: Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:54:57 PM

He's a henchman you can slot in that role without any commen too.

Though of course Dexter and Wilson didn't part on great terms in Series 3.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#130368: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:27:28 PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13125974270A57100500&page=5215#comment-130358

I kept myself from posting that in case it was revealed to be bogus eventually, but then again, at the tailend of the Fraction/Aja run of Hawkeye, of which the D+ show has been heavily borrowing elements from, Kingpin put a hit on both Clint and Kate, plus he's a key component in Echo's origin story and we know Echo's in the Hawkeye show.

But in any case, YES VINCENT D'ONOFRIO COMING BACK AS KINGPIN! WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO GETTING LIVE-ACTION SPIDEY VS. KINGPIN! gringringrin

Wonder who else is next.

There have been those persistent rumors that Charlie Cox was appearing in Spider-Man: No Way Home...

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 23rd 2021 at 8:29:39 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#130369: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:32:48 PM

We never got Asteroid M, which I've always felt is one of the most adaptable-to-film Magneto tragedies. We've never gotten Genosha either.

We actually did get Genosha in a movie... but it was as a minor footnote in Dark Phoenix so I can forgive you for not remembering that.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#130370: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:36:16 PM

On the one hand great! He is Kingpin.

On the other hand he'll probably not be the same Fisk from the Netflix show, and so be the final nail in the coffin for it.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 23rd 2021 at 8:36:37 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130371: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:36:48 PM

Admitably Bullseye would make for a great opponent against the Hawkeye's due to also being a master marksman.

Bullseye was even Hawkeye once for the Dark Avengers.

Come to think of it, has Bullseye ever fought Hawkeye? Like, that seems like a battle that needs to happen, kinda like the one time Green Arrow fought Deadshot (who are essentially the Hawkeye and Bullseye of DC).

But yeah, great to see D'onfrio back as Fisk. I do hope this movie SHOW is so good it shuts up everyone everywhere about how much Hawkeye sucks, cause I'm sick of hearing it.

Though I admit, that may be because while I agree that he hasn't gotten the attention he'd needed in these movies, it comes off to me as a Forced Meme. He's only a loser because people keep insisting he's one.

But I'm also probably not being fair on that front either.

[down] My bad.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 23rd 2021 at 6:05:41 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#130372: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:39:59 PM

But yeah, great to see D'onfrio back as Fisk. I do hope this movie is so good it shuts up everyone everywhere about how much Hawkeye sucks, cause I'm sick of hearing it.

The Hawkeye project on D+ is a show.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 23rd 2021 at 8:40:24 AM

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#130373: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:41:22 PM

Huh, so Maya Lopez might keep her comic origin as Fisk's adopted daughter.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#130374: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:41:45 PM

Lady Bullseye showed up for the big Villain Team-Up at the end of Hawkeye: Kate Bishop, versus both Clint and Kate; does that count?

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:41:57 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130375: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:44:23 PM

[up][up] Wait she’s Fisk’s daughter?!

Holy shit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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