TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130326: Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:12:24 PM

Magneto's backstory as a survivor of the holocaust is practically set in stone,at this point it doesn't how many years have passed since the end of World War 2 his backstory is always going to remain the same

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130327: Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:14:01 PM

Apocalypse is an immortal Egyptian.

And Wolverine is a couple centuries old.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:14:31 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#130328: Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:18:57 PM

I say just have Magneto spend a majority of the intervening years on ice. It's already established that Hydra had the capability back in the WW 2 era, and it's not difficult to imagine a situation where they managed to luck their way into freezing him...then never got the courage to unfreeze him until decades after the fact.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#130329: Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:24:49 PM

[up][up] Pretty much, yeah. It's not exactly a stretch to simply go with "one of his secondary mutations is that he ages slowly".

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#130330: Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:52:58 PM

I'd have Magneto dead before the story proper begins then revived in the present time.

There, the perils of the sliding timescale avoided.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#130331: Jul 22nd 2021 at 6:00:57 PM

Count me in as another who would really prefer Magneto be a Holocaust survivor, even if it requires some explanation.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 22nd 2021 at 6:01:08 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130332: Jul 22nd 2021 at 6:05:48 PM

Since time travel shenanigans are a thing now, it wouldn't surprise me if Magneto was transferred over to the present day from, like, the 60's or 70's.

The legend has returned.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#130333: Jul 22nd 2021 at 6:25:23 PM

Every time this topic comes up I point out that HYDRA are both Nazi-affiliated and had advanced-enough cryo-preservation technology to keep Bucky the same age into the present day. It's really easy to say they put the Master of Magnet on ice until they could study/replicate his power.

And nobody listens. tongue

Falrinn's got the same idea it seems, at least.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 9:26:33 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#130334: Jul 22nd 2021 at 7:35:50 PM

Admittedly in that scenario you'd have to explain why Mags has still been on ice 10+ years since Hydra collapsed.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130335: Jul 22nd 2021 at 7:37:19 PM

He hit the snooze button

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#130336: Jul 22nd 2021 at 7:37:28 PM

Same reason only Zemo knew about Tony's parents' death. Most of the data is still encrypted and difficult to follow up on.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#130337: Jul 22nd 2021 at 10:58:39 PM

They could always just not do Magneto's origin.

Like, the whole point of mutants is that you don't have to give each superpowered character their own origin story. You can just have Magneto show up and be a character without needing to delve into his past.

Of course, ideally, I'd hope they'd hold off on introducing Magneto for a long, long while. Same goes for the whole Fox Films Quartet (Magneto, Xavier, Wolverine, and Mystique, though I'll make an exception in the latter's case if she's used to introduce Rogue).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130338: Jul 22nd 2021 at 11:02:16 PM

That would take a lot of the strength of the character though.

Like Ultimate Magneto was without the Holocaust backstory and there he’s a just a plain psychopathic supremacist.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#130339: Jul 23rd 2021 at 12:57:28 AM

The thing I've always wondered about Magneto is: why didn't the holocaust make him more empathetic towards other humans? Like, it wasn't just him who got tortured by the nazis. All those other non-mutants did too.

Is this a "He got the message that non-mutants just kill each other and are inherently destructive" sort of thing?

Edited by GNinja on Jul 23rd 2021 at 7:58:23 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#130340: Jul 23rd 2021 at 1:23:36 AM

He saw the absolute depths of cruelty and evil that humanity was capable of and swore that he would never allow himself or his people to be in that situation again. Yeah, the holocaust targeted other groups besides the Jewish people, but it's very likely that at Magneto's particular camp, where he was confronted with the most mind-bending trauma a child can possibly endure, he only interacted with other Jewish people.

Once Magneto was in a position of/a being with power, and he saw the same hateful reaction towards mutants, aka his other people, he decided "Oh no, we're not having this shit" and resolved to not let the same fate befall mutantkind, under any circumstances, by any means necessary.

EDIT: and so much of Magneto's character, the who and the why of it, is tied pretty explicitly to World War 2 and the holocaust and being a Jewish person that if you're going to change any of that stuff about him, you might as well just make a different character.

Edited by SonOfSharknado on Jul 23rd 2021 at 4:25:15 AM

My various fanfics.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#130341: Jul 23rd 2021 at 1:38:04 AM

[up] Does Magneto care that much about Jewish people? I thought he was a mutant supremacist. I never see stories where he's fighting for jews.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 23rd 2021 at 8:39:23 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#130342: Jul 23rd 2021 at 1:41:56 AM

Being Jewish is very much an integral part of Magneto's identity. Sometimes being a mutant supremacist is the forefront of his character, depending on how villainously he's being written, but it's not an either-or thing. He is not either Jewish or a mutant he is a Jewish Mutant.

It's why a lot of people got upset with the Krakoa era having Erik go "We're making a new society here, we have to abandon our old rules, our old religions" because he would literally never say that.

My various fanfics.
djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#130343: Jul 23rd 2021 at 1:48:42 AM

Yeah... That didn't sit well with me. In most stories, while he's not exactly a practicing Jew, he is a believing one.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#130344: Jul 23rd 2021 at 1:55:26 AM

That would take a lot of the strength of the character though.

Like Ultimate Magneto was without the Holocaust backstory and there he’s a just a plain psychopathic supremacist.

There are ways to tie Magneto to the Holocaust backstory without going through the loops of justifying his age. Like, as I've said before, he could be the son of two Holocaust survivors and they fear that his powers would subjugate him to the torment they endured. And Magneto, having grown up with the stories, would still have enough emotional hatred towards his oppressors, Holocaust deniers, and of course, Nazis.

I mean, trauma can be passed down from generation to generation, and can manifest in different forms. Magneto doesn't need his full comic backstory anymore than Tony Stark needs the Vietnam War for his backstory. He just needs enough beats of his thematic story to be recontextualized in a modern setting. No different from Black Widow being raised in a post-USSR world or Bruce Banner getting gamma radiation from a lab instead of an atomic blast or Peter Parker being bitten by a genetically-modified spider or Nick Fury fighting a modern HYDRA rather than the Nazi-rooted one in WWII.

Honestly, we spend more time trying to justify Magneto's age rather than thinking of how the Holocaust affects us to this very day and how it would shape Magneto's perception about the world.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 23rd 2021 at 2:12:24 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#130345: Jul 23rd 2021 at 5:29:07 AM

The actual experience of being a victim of one of, if not the most depraved act inflicted by humans against other humans is bound to warp even the kindest soul. Credit to the Fox Men films, for all their endless bungles, they got that.

“My dear, I have been marked once, and I assure you, no needle will ever touch this skin again.”

That changes a man in a way that is powerful and instantly recognizable. The thing is that while there are other genocides and acts of human cruelty that could offer a similar effect, like a sort of “Human Depravity Olympics”, no act of horror is as ubiquitous in history.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#130346: Jul 23rd 2021 at 6:03:44 AM

Magneto's villain philosophy works if you view it as him seeing the Holocaust and he replying with "Never again, not to me and my ilk", skipping right past the "Never again, not to anybody".

Which leads to some horrible outcomes like Magneto thinking genocides are okay as long as they're preventing a genocide against the demographics he cares about, but that's what makes him a villain. Sometimes you can stretch it and have Magneto believe that genocides are just kind of envitable, people are just gonna genocide each other, so he'd rather his people be the ones commiting genocide rather than ones suffering it.

I'm not fond of Magneto being written that way. I prefer Magneto as being someone who abhors all genocide and instead he targets politicians and agents he deems to have the potential to abide genocide. The first and third Fox-Men films probably have my favourite take of him, where he's going to extreme lengths, not out of revenge, but because he does genuinely think he's protecting the world from it's own flaws.

As much as ai love First Class, writing Magneto as someone sinpu out for revenge feels a little shallow.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#130347: Jul 23rd 2021 at 2:36:14 PM

My hope for Magneto, if they ever do adapt him into the MCU, is they introduce him as an Anti-Villain who has a Heel–Face Turn early on (late in his first film or early in his second film) and stays a hero for the remainder of his time in the MCU.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#130348: Jul 23rd 2021 at 2:37:31 PM

Ehh I don't think fans want a fully good Mags.

Just Makima.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130349: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:09:39 PM

One issue I have with certain portrayals of Magneto is taking him too far in the direction of villainy to the point where he's meant to be as bad as his oppressors in Germany. First Class did that in the worst way by having Erik downright agree with Sebastian Shaw's ideology (and again, Shaw was literally a Nazi in that movie), his only exception was that Shaw hurt him personally. The whole "If you do X, you'll be just like them" cliche is one I despise, and doing that with a character who's a Holocaust survivor is...blech.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130350: Jul 23rd 2021 at 3:13:21 PM

I feel like everything you can do with Magneto has been done in the movies.

The legend has returned.

Total posts: 186,763
Top