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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130151: Jul 18th 2021 at 1:45:05 PM

Yes, its called the Thunderbolts

They've worn a lot of hats over the years as Marvel keeps trying to reinvent the team to recapture that lightning.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130152: Jul 18th 2021 at 1:51:52 PM

As I recall they during the late 2000s, especially the Luke Cage lead incarnations was quite literally just the Suicide Squad.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#130153: Jul 18th 2021 at 2:00:09 PM

I find pretty likely that they're just doing Dark Avengers but called Thunderbolts. The two teams are alreay pretty intercrossed anyway (down to the debut of the Dark Avengers having a handful of Mythology Gag to Thunderbolts).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#130154: Jul 18th 2021 at 2:04:41 PM

[up][up] Like I said, while there is an anti-hero Thunderbolts, vs the hype built around the team them ultimately choosing to adapt that version of the team rather than the most iconic would be something of a let down, so I'm wondering if there's a different team they could be angling towards.

It could be an adaptation of the H.A.M.M.E.R Avengers, minus Norman Osborn. The whole idea of "supposedly heroic superheroes led by a morally ambiguous and likely evil backer, whose heroic goals explicitly include supplanting the old Avengers" does seem to gel here, and I've wondered if they might try a Dark Reign adaptation substituting another character for Norman at some point.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130155: Jul 18th 2021 at 2:08:40 PM

Reminder that Avengers Assemble is the first media to bring the Thunderbolts out of the comics and like everything else about that show it just wasted the story.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130156: Jul 18th 2021 at 2:10:38 PM

Oh it really did.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130157: Jul 18th 2021 at 2:13:49 PM

Its rather incredible how the show like Ultimate Spider-Man was able to use so much from the comics, far more than any previous show did due to having so many seasons......... and then not use them well to any particular effect.

Again its honestly impressive, its like the very avatar of mediocrity.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130158: Jul 18th 2021 at 4:27:46 PM

Whatever they're doing they probably want it to be different from Suicide Squad to avoid comparisons.

Which explains why Yelena and Walker were willing recruits.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#130159: Jul 18th 2021 at 5:35:23 PM

Going back a few pages:

analogous to, say, an American military guy shooting up a Middle Eastern Terrorists base for coolness points

Which was half of Iron Man 1.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130160: Jul 18th 2021 at 5:38:39 PM

Ergo.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130161: Jul 18th 2021 at 5:52:06 PM

Just further proving Tony Stark has always been a reactionary character. Wasn't Stan Lee's whole idea to make Tony a conservative character that liberal hippies would like?

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#130162: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:18:23 PM

[up]Yeah. He challenged himself to make “THE MAN” sympathetic by realizing the errors of his ways.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#130163: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:20:40 PM

[up][up] Yes so he could eventually develop out of it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130164: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:21:07 PM

I think he failed considering Tony's probably still one of the more hated characters post Civil War....both of them.tongue

Sure, Carol was more to blame for the second one, but Tony's still be involved in two of these. That should get people looking at him oddly.

One Strip! One Strip!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#130165: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:22:11 PM

Yeah, but Stan Lee didn't write those. Every comic character has a Dork Age or five up there somewhere due to Depending on the Writer and those happen to be some of Tony's.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 18th 2021 at 9:24:39 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130166: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:25:46 PM

I mean by that logic its the fault of Max Allan Collins and Terry Beatty for creating the character Wild Dog who's now being portrayed as an alt-right capitalist stormer despite neither of the 2 having anything to do with that story.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 18th 2021 at 6:29:20 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#130167: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:27:48 PM

Hell, Civil War happened, what, thirty to forty years after Lee stopped working on the title at all?

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130168: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:31:19 PM

I mean by that logic its the fault of Max Allan Collins and Terry Beatty for creating the character Wilddog who's now being portrayed as an alt-right capitalist stormer despite neither of the 2 having anything to do with that story.

I mean, Lee and Kirby wrote Iron Man to be an American imperialist and rich playboy who fought stand-ins for the "evil commies". My issue with Tony Stark is less to do with Civil War and more to do with me just hating the very idea of the character.

Actually, I don't know what Civil War has to do with this, I was more grumping about the scene from the first Iron Man film linked earlier.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jul 18th 2021 at 11:31:55 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130169: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:31:55 PM

The funniest thing about Lee Iron Man is that Tony became aware that people found his Mark 1 armor intimidating so his idea of how to fix that was to change the color to gold without changing the appearance in any other way.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130170: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:32:01 PM

Ok. That's fair enough.

While Stan was writing him, the experiment was a success.

One Strip! One Strip!
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#130171: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:40:46 PM

Little bit of trivia for the day: Iron Man's original appearance wasn't actually scripted by Lee, instead by his brother Larry Lieber, since Lee himself couldn't owing to deadline pressure.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#130172: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:47:42 PM

[up][up][up] Well to be fair, while his suit would still be terrifying to be up against, it IS a lot more marketable than a generic chrome suit...

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#130173: Jul 18th 2021 at 6:52:56 PM

[up]One of the things that I kind of wish the MCU spent a few minutes covering. Merchandising! Agents of SHIELD implied Stark Industires sold Avengers toys.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#130174: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:40:32 PM

Kirby didn't work on Iron Man either. It was Don Heck, who was also his co-creator.

And ah, I do have a fondness for the gold-painted Mk.1 armor.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130175: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:04:49 PM

Kirby didn't work on Iron Man either. It was Don Heck, who was also his co-creator.

Wikipedia lists Kirby as being one of the four co-creators of Iron Man and he worked on some of the art. I'm assuming he didn't contribute as much to Iron Man as he did to other characters he helped create?


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