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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#130126: Jul 18th 2021 at 8:46:19 AM

And its also surging in large parts of the us and people don't want to go outside because of that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130127: Jul 18th 2021 at 8:47:48 AM

Capacity restrictions do not mean shit if people don’t want to risk it all for a two hour movie that they can rent at home.

AngrokVa indighost from america, unfortunately Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
indighost
#130128: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:14:11 AM

And even if they're not gonna risk it all, they'd more likely rather wait until Disney+'s overpriced Premier Access paywall is removed for Black Widow (as has been the case for the Mulan remake, and Raya and the Last Dragon). Then they can just watch it there without paying having to pay an extra thirty dollars.

In any case, I haven't seen Black Widow, and probably won't until October 6, when it's made available for all Disney+ subscribers.

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#130129: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:24:05 AM

Pretty much [up], I'm interested in the movie but I'm not interested enough to go out to a theater for it or pay an extra $30 for it. I can definitely wait until October 6 to watch it.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#130130: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:40:43 AM

So I just noticed something and wanted to see if anyone else did. Going forward we might have two Thanos replacement.

Spoilers below this point!

Valentina who appears in Falcone and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, mostly likely plays a role in Hawkeye, and is probably responsible for the Thunderbolts.

Kang who appears in Loki, will be properly introduced in Antman and the Wasp Quantumania, and will definitely have an affect beyond that.

Am I reading to much into this. Because if I am not then that is an interesting was to replace the previous Overarching Villain.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 18th 2021 at 11:41:47 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130131: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:46:12 AM

I thought Kang being the next overarching main bad guy was already decided.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130132: Jul 18th 2021 at 9:59:57 AM

So....re-watching the original Avengers.

I know people aren't too jazzed on Whedon's whole the Avengers can't lose if they are a united force, so they need to be their own worst enemy thing.....

But Infinity War and Endgame kinda prove him right don't they? Like, because the group was scattered in Infinity War, they lost...and badly. More to the point, they came back together in Endgame, and though Thanos gave them a tougher fight than anyone else (like Carol and Wanda were his perfect counters, and he still found ways to beat them).

So.....Joss Whedon (not a good person, and I'm really disappointed in some of the shit he's apparently done) but maybe, sorta not wrong?

He may not have executed this idea in a way people like, but....and this is a big but (no pun intended) he may not have been off the mark.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130133: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:02:22 AM

Avengers is worth watching just to see Hulk roflstomp Loki

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130134: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:04:16 AM

I'd say it's worth it for a lot of stuff....

....but that part is still excellent.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#130135: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:21:58 AM

Avengers 1 had me so excited back in 2012. These days, "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny applies to it (for me) unfortunately.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130136: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:33:39 AM

The whole point of Avengers is that they’re earth’s mightiest heroes who come together to face enemies that they couldn’t handle alone.

So, yes, when united the Avengers should be able to eventually beat anyone you put against them in an Avengers story

This doesn’t mean that when together the Avengers can beat anyone no problem so they need to be at odds to have tension.

It’s more about teamwork and and a collection of different powers and skills

Avengers 2 could have been about the Avengers encountering a threat that took them for a loop even when they’d perfectly gelled as a team and having to persevere and eventually overcome it. That would still have tension

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#130137: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:34:37 AM

They appear to be doing two plots, more or less. A more Earth centric plot involving what appears to be mass Thunderbolts recruitment, under the the Contessa. And then the separate cosmic plot involving Kang.

I don’t know if we can saw with certain that there’s going to be a single, capital The overarching antagonist, as much as several primary plots with their own antagonist.

This is a good thing, because it gives everyone something important to do without feeling like they’re shoehorning everyone’s lore into something very specific, which was kind of noticeable with the Infinity Stones arc. Kang especially is such a very specific kind of threat that I don’t mind that being primarily pursued by the more cosmic characters (and Ant-Man, admittedly).

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#130138: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:34:43 AM

I remember the Hulk roflstomping Loki actually ruined my experience of watching the film at the time. I've mellowed very slightly since then, like I also feel dumb for having walked out of Iron Man 3 in disgust now too, but I still don't like it.

Hulk in general I just don't like as a character in these crossover movies. I never find him funny or entertaining to watch.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 18th 2021 at 5:37:32 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130139: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:36:37 AM

Honestly, looking back, I only ever like maybe the last 20-minutes of the first Avengers. The rest is kind of boring and poorly filmed, and Whedon's dialogue is just...very obnoxiously Whedon.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130140: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:37:55 AM

[up][up] By that point Loki has already lost the battle, so it's more of a catharsis-based joke. Loki is so frustrating to fight as a villain that it's glorious to see Hulk thrashing him. Even better, Loki's traumatic memory of it sets up a hilarious joke in Thor: Ragnarok.

[up] There are some excellent character moments in the first Avengers, especially aboard the helicarrier. In fact, every scene with Loki in it is a winner.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 18th 2021 at 1:38:28 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130141: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:42:55 AM

There are some excellent character moments in the first Avengers, especially aboard the helicarrier. In fact, every scene with Loki in it is a winner.

Eh, Loki has some good stuff in the first Avengers (mostly Hiddleston hamming it up), but his characterization there doesn't jive with everything else he's in. I prefer his Ragnarok characterization more. With everyone else, well...Banner is good, Natasha is alright but there's some elements of the eventual Age of Ultron debacle and Whedon turning too much male gaze on her, Steve is turned into a fucking joke by Whedon's pen (same with Age of Ultron), Thor is similarly poorly written (I prefer Branaugh and Waititi's versions of him), and uh...I just hate Tony Stark in general but Whedon's version is especially awful.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#130142: Jul 18th 2021 at 10:44:37 AM

[up][up] Again, "hilarious" is subjective. I just don't synergize with those types of jokes.

I think the one time it worked for me was in Age of Ultron, when Hulk "Puny gods" Ultron. People call it a rehash of the Loki joke, and it kinda is, but the context was juuuuuust different enough that I vibed with it.

See, in Avengers, Loki was caught off guard. In Ultron, Ultron KNOWS it's coming. He's like "Oh, for god's sake." I can empathize with that. In some profound ways, I AM Ultron in that moment, I'm also being subjected to Hulk humour and feeling like I'm being punched in the face. I am one with him. In moments like those, all you can do is laugh. The same way you laugh when you're stuck in a tunnel with a train racing towards you. Only here the train is hulk jokes.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 18th 2021 at 5:49:52 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#130143: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:07:37 PM

Eh, Loki has some good stuff in the first Avengers (mostly Hiddleston hamming it up), but his characterization there doesn't jive with everything else he's in.

Uh tbf the overly arrogant if fun Smug Snake whose plans blow up in his face does sync with later appearances. At least when he's a baddish dude. He gets out of that after he becomes a good guy even if he has his moments.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130144: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:09:10 PM

I personally feel like the cracks in Loki's characterization are papered over with the scene showing he's under duress and the scenes where the Avengers poke holes in his plan and say he seems desperate

He had a full on existential breakdown, burned all his bridges at home, fell out of space, and ended up in Thanos' control. His life has spiraled out of control.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 18th 2021 at 3:10:58 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130145: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:10:53 PM

Uh tbf the overly arrogant if fun Smug Snake whose plans blow up in his face does sync with later appearances. At least when he's a baddish dude. He gets out of that after he becomes a good guy even if he has his moments.

Compared to the first Thor movie, it's like watching a different character, in my opinion.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130146: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:30:09 PM

A more Earth centric plot involving what appears to be mass Thunderbolts recruitment, under the the Contessa.

Has it been confirmed it's the Thunderbolts she's recruiting for?

It is clearly some sort of Anti-Hero team.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 18th 2021 at 3:55:39 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#130147: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:33:18 PM

No, but what the hell else could it be?

Smart part of the brain: The Dark Avengers?

Other part of the brain: That's just the Thunderbolts with extra steps, fuck off!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130148: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:36:40 PM

Well the Dark Avengers was when Norman Osborn took over the Thunderbolts.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130149: Jul 18th 2021 at 12:51:50 PM

I don't think they'll do Dark Avengers and call it Dark Avengers.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#130150: Jul 18th 2021 at 1:28:45 PM

It’s not stated that the team being set up is literally the Thunderbolts, however with the set ups we’re getting it seems like whatever we do get will effectively be the same thing one way or another.

However, that said, there is a decent chance they’re setting up an anti-hero team instead given that the characters they’ve recruited so far have been antiheroes. There is an antihero version of the Thunderbolts, but it would be kind of a letdown for the big Thunderbolts adaptation to be that one, so they could be adapting something else - is there, say, a team of assassins or a suicide squad-esque group in Marvel’s purview?


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