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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#129476: Jun 26th 2021 at 12:41:24 AM

Never read to comics so I’m curious which villains are Shang-Chi’s main enemies. Obviously, there’s Fun Man Chu who was later retconned into a different character, but who else?

Afterall, even if Wenwu stick around for more moves, they’re going to introduce new villains in Shang-Chi 2 and 3. ;)

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#129477: Jun 26th 2021 at 12:44:37 AM

If the MCU has proven anything, it’s that it doesn’t take a lot to turn someone into an arch-nemesis declaring war on Tony Stark.

The comics had a storyline revolving around a bunch of people who became Tony's sworn enemies over really stupid and petty reasons. It didn't help that they were further enabled by the Mandarin's Rings.

For example, one of these losers was The Exile. The reason he hated Tony? Because The Exile got drunk and murdered his father and brothers in a fit of rage, then blamed Tony for not stopping his murderous rampage sooner.

The rest of the people the Mandarin Rings chose weren't much better.

Edited by M84 on Jun 27th 2021 at 3:46:19 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#129478: Jun 26th 2021 at 5:51:13 AM

Never read to comics so I’m curious which villains are Shang-Chi’s main enemies. Obviously, there’s Fun Man Chu who was later retconned into a different character, but who else?

He doesn't have much of a rogue's gallery of his own as he's often been a supporting character/ensemble player rather than the main man.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#129479: Jun 26th 2021 at 6:51:18 AM

One of Shang-Chi's best moments was ironically a fight he lost. Specifically he was up against a villain named Gorgon, whose whole shtick was that he's a prodigy at damn near everything including swordsmanship. Shang-Chi went into the fight knowing he couldn't win, but fought anyway. And he didn't win.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129480: Jun 26th 2021 at 7:10:57 AM

Shang basically has a very small rogues gallery that's basically composed of the characters Marvel invented to be Fu Manchu's minions in his earlier stories (iirc, the biggest one not yet seen in the trailers for this movie is Midnight Sun), but he otherwise dips fairly frequently into the enemies of other "X of Kung Fu" heroes, or Marvel Knights / Heroes for Hire, etc and so on.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#129481: Jun 26th 2021 at 7:39:23 AM

The one I mentioned, Gorgon, was originally a Wolverine villain. In his debut he utterly wrecked Logan and even killed him before having him resurrected and brainwashed to be an agent of Hydra.

Even in the rematch he had Wolverine's number. Wolverine only prevailed by turning Gorgon's own power against him (hint: he's not called "Gorgon" for nothing and Wolverine's claws are reflective).

It should be noted that when Shang-Chi fought Gorgon, Gorgon had not only been resurrected by the Hand but was made even stronger. So Shang-Chi basically fought an upgraded version of the guy who made Wolverine look like a chump.

Edited by M84 on Jun 26th 2021 at 10:40:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#129482: Jun 26th 2021 at 9:14:51 AM

The Worf Effect in action basically

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129483: Jun 26th 2021 at 9:21:27 AM

I like how in the last X-Men event X of Swords Gorgon sacrificed his life to grant Krakoa the power play and win back all those points against Arakko and Saturnyne’s cheating.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#129484: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:16:36 AM

Was it much of a sacrifice if he can just be resurrected?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129485: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:18:19 AM

Yes because he died in the Arakko dimension meaning he can't be properly brought back.

Whatever Gorgon that comes back won't be the same like with Rockslide.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#129486: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:21:45 AM

What a weirdly specific resurrection method

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129487: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:24:33 AM

No because the Arakko dimension disrupts the Krakoa resurrection process.

Anyone who dies there runs the risk of dying for real.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#129488: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:35:27 AM

What a weirdly specific dimensional thinger

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#129489: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:38:51 AM

I hadn't heard of Gorgon before, but he sounds really cool (dare I say kind of Villain Sue / a lot of Japanese tropes made into a person). But he would would work well as a Shang Chi villain in the MCU, whether or not they would actually say the "M Word".

It's hard for me to explain, but like the suggestion of Kraven as a Black Panther villain, it's one of those cases where despite a character not being a major antagonist of the hero in the comics, they would work really well as an Evil Counterpart, because they have everything that makes the hero cool but without the underlying humanity.

Also, on the topic of Shang Chi villains, I don't want to get my hopes up, but one of his opponents (more of an Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy foil than an enemy) is Shen Kuei or "Cat", and there's a character in the movie named "Katy".

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 26th 2021 at 12:39:02 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129490: Jun 26th 2021 at 10:44:41 AM

Specifically the Krakoa resurecction method relies on Xavier creating psionic backups stored in Cerebro. When you die, the backup can be implanted into your new body granting you all your memories back and of course it can be continually upgraded through mental contact with Xavier.

Arakko though is a nexus of dimensions and actually corrupts the backups. When you die there the psionic backups get fucked as they are connected to the multiverse. Basically Xavier loses access to the original copies and instead resurrects any other version of the character, potentially a soulless version of them.

Its akin to permanently losing a save file.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#129491: Jun 26th 2021 at 11:15:10 AM

Hope none mutants have to go on a mission to the Everglades

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#129492: Jun 26th 2021 at 11:16:43 AM

Never read to comics so I’m curious which villains are Shang-Chi’s main enemies. Obviously, there’s Fun Man Chu who was later retconned into a different character, but who else?

Cat has already been mentioned, but some of the other foes Shang-Chi has faced include the Shadow-Stalker (a dude who has twin maces attached to the top of his head), Razor-Fist (a dude who has two big blades in place of his arms), Tiger-Claw (a dude with Wolverine Claws), Midnight (a disfigured ninja and Shang-Chi's former friend who remains loyal to his dad), Shockwave (a disfigured former MI-6 agent wearing an electrified suit), Carlton Velcro (a billionaire drug lord who plans to conquer the world with his nuclear arsenal), Mordillo (a Psychopathic Manchild For Hire who owns a fairy-tale-themed private island), and Brynocki (Mordillo's diminutive robot assistant).

If they plan to composite Wenwu with the Yellow Claw, they might introduce the Claw's grand-niece Suwan, who in the comics is a heroic version of Fu Manchu's daughter Fah Lo Suee. I believe she was reintroduced in Agents of Atlas as a more morally ambiguous character.

Edited by ClancyGardener on Jun 26th 2021 at 11:17:40 AM

Trope Editor (he/him)
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#129493: Jun 26th 2021 at 11:23:49 AM

Razor-Fist is, in fact, in the film (you can see him in the trailers via a shot of Shang-Chi ducking under his razor arm). The masked guy Shang-Chi is also often seen fighting in the trailer appears to be minor Shang-Chi foe Death-Dealer.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#129494: Jun 26th 2021 at 11:33:37 AM

[up] Razor Fist's inclusion in the first film definitely makes sense, given that he's become a minor meme in the comics. Because, c'mon, Razor Fist!

Trope Editor (he/him)
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#129495: Jun 26th 2021 at 1:40:58 PM

We need a Razor-Fist/Taserface team up for maximum memosity.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#129497: Jun 26th 2021 at 2:25:54 PM

The comics had a storyline revolving around a bunch of people who became Tony's sworn enemies over really stupid and petty reasons. It didn't help that they were further enabled by the Mandarin's Rings.

For example, one of these losers was The Exile. The reason he hated Tony? Because The Exile got drunk and murdered his father and brothers in a fit of rage, then blamed Tony for not stopping his murderous rampage sooner.

The rest of the people the Mandarin Rings chose weren't much better.

That sounds like a perfectly valid reason to hate Tony. Then again, I consider Tony existing to be a perfectly valid reason to hate Tony so I'm biased.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#129498: Jun 26th 2021 at 2:34:50 PM

Seems like every other week, some Marvel title or another declares, "I know that death is cheap and all, but THIS TIME, if the character dies, they die FOR REAL."

Three years later, they're back like nothing happened.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#129499: Jun 26th 2021 at 2:38:23 PM

This second trailer has generated a whole lot more interest from me in the film. I was already interested to see how Marvel would approach this genre, but now seeing how these ten rings seemingly work, and seeing the film lean on the marvel fantasy kitchen sink of dragons, gamma monsters and wizards while still having somethig that feels in keeping to the wuxia genre.

Yeah I'm hyped. Way more for this than The Eternals and astronomically more for this than Black Widow (which never really had a hook for me as it were, being seemingly so low concept)

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#129500: Jun 26th 2021 at 2:39:01 PM

> Three years later, they're back like nothing happened.

Except Uncle Ben of course

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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