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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#129451: Jun 25th 2021 at 12:12:08 PM

Yeah, that trailer definitely gives me the impression that Shang-Chi gets the rings by the end. Either he uses them to finally defeat Mandarin, or it's right at the end and him actually using them is kind of a sequel hook.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#129453: Jun 25th 2021 at 12:18:44 PM

And then, he can truly be... the Lord of the Rings.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#129454: Jun 25th 2021 at 12:42:49 PM

After all, why not? Why shouldn't he keep the Mandarin's rings?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#129455: Jun 25th 2021 at 12:47:23 PM

There's no in-universe reason why he shouldn't keep them if the opportunity to do so presents itself. But there is an argument to be made that letting him obtain actual superpowers detracts a bit from the appeal of a character whose central concept is "Master of Kung Fu".

It's a bit like asking, "Why shouldn't Tony Stark make Iron Man suits for Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Captain America, and have them pilot those going forward?"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#129456: Jun 25th 2021 at 1:10:20 PM

I don't expect Shang Chi to keep the rings, but per Tobias's point, I'd make an exception here because the rings as presented are martial arts equipment (magic martial arts equipment, but still....), and actual magic powers are not at all at odds with the wuxia genre.

As a comparison, while Iron Man suits would detract from what makes Captain America, Black Widow, and Hawkeye cool, at the same time, all three of those characters do use unique weapons and in two of those cases, those weapons are part of what makes them cool (sorry Nat, no one really cares about your batons or bracelets).

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#129457: Jun 25th 2021 at 1:35:37 PM

I remember when the first trailer dropped a lot of criticism of the character along the lines of "The first major MCU Asian superhero shouldn't be a guy who's just good at kung fu." And it wouldn't surprise me, given the number of Asian-Americans involved in the movie's production, if the concern made its way into the writer's room as well. So there's most likely an incentive to ensure Shang-Chi is a heavy-hitter who is more than just the best damn martial artist ever, but at the same time you don't wanna undermine his martial arts prowess by just throwing random powers at him. Therefore, kung fu superweapons.

I'm honestly not the hugest fan of the idea tbh but I do think it can be done well if it's emphasized that the Ten Rings are supplementary and complimentary to his martial arts. I could very easily see the movie asserting that Wenwu is too reliant on the strength of the Rings alone and that Shang-Chi is more worthy because of "the strength within" or some shit like that. But the Rings becoming a central aspect of Shang-Chi's repertoire would be massive disservice to the character IMO.

All that said, it'd be downright hilarious if Shang-Chi takes the Rings for himself, and then Wenwu, desperate to reclaim his power, stumbles on ten completely different rings that are Truer to the Text to the comics rings. [lol]

Edited by Watchtower on Jun 25th 2021 at 4:37:16 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129458: Jun 25th 2021 at 1:38:58 PM

Man though its a shame Tony never managed to get into an epic kung-fu fight with Wenwu.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129459: Jun 25th 2021 at 1:48:57 PM

I was kind of hoping for a while that there would be a scene where Wenwu is, say, watching a recording of Tony’s funeral and taking satisfaction in having outlived him.

But the downside is that there isn’t really precedent for Mandarin and Tony having an archenemy or even particularly adversarial relationship in the MCU. Tony basically got one of his lieutenants’ way once a decade ago and beat up a guy who bought some fake passports off a small timer affiliated with him a year or so later. Unless they retcon Tony having been fighting Wenwu offscreen all this time, they just missed the train on that. I am expecting a nod to the Trevor Slattery short, but they don’t have much to draw on for anything else.

Which is why I’m hoping they have, like, Rhodey in the present make a cameo as a hero investigating Wenwu in some way. Bring it full circle, but not in a way that gets in the way of it being Shang’s movie.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 25th 2021 at 1:55:55 AM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#129460: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:12:06 PM

Shang ending up with the rings also kind of fits with the whole parental legacy/daddy issues thing where he's expressly told his father is part of him. So by taking the legacy weapon and turning it to heroism not crime would be a way to show him grappling with that concept.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129461: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:13:43 PM

I'd be down for Shang winning the rings from Wenwu, and then casting them aside so as to not be weighed down by his father's legacy or wishes any more.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#129462: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:19:08 PM

[up][up][up] I'm fine with Rhodey taking the Armor Wars storyline for himself and I honestly wouldn't mind him squaring against Mandarin either. My guy needs stuff to work with.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#129463: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:20:42 PM

I'm normally a person who complains about nonsense, and I know this sounds petty even for me, but until the movie comes out and we know things for sure, I genuinely do not like this idea for the 10 rings, if it's as the people here are predicting.

Like, ever since the trailers for IM 3 dropped, all I've ever wanted was to see the Mandarin in a movie. With the ten rings. Specifically, the rings with all the unique powers. I think its the epitome of coolness. XD I don't tend to have a lot of characters or concepts that I want to see in an MCU movie. The Ten Rings were like the one exception.

So for the Mandarin to be adapted weirdly twice, and for the rings to be weird chi blast arm bands now is just kinda frustrating I guess.

Kaze ni Nare!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129464: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:22:02 PM

I don't necessarily mean him outright fighting Wenwu in the film, as much as a nod that indicates that Wenwu and Rhodey or Stark Industries or so on are in contention at the moment.

It could even cycle back to my theory that Shang's friend "Katie" is actually an alias of classic Shang-Chi character & superspy Leiko Wu, and if so it could be revealed that Rhodey is the one who assigned her to Shang or something.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#129465: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:41:06 PM

Who’s Wenwu, again? And what’s this about a lieutenant?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jun 25th 2021 at 2:41:23 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129466: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:41:23 PM

Wenwu is the Mandarin's real name in this continuity, instead of Temugin or Zhang.

The "lieutenant" I brought up was Raza from Iron Man 1, who was in charge of a minor branch of the Ten Rings in the Middle East.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 25th 2021 at 2:42:52 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#129467: Jun 25th 2021 at 2:53:13 PM

And the small timer is Whiplash, who got his passport in Iron Man 2 from a Ten Rings operative.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129468: Jun 25th 2021 at 3:08:47 PM

I can imagine the rings even if they don't have 10 unique superpowers, may have 10 unique functions at least to maintain the whole 10 multi weapon theme of it.

So going by the trailer one function is to use it to generate seismic blasts while another appears to manipulate them like an energy whip.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#129469: Jun 25th 2021 at 3:45:15 PM

If the Ten Rings device exists in the MCU, does that mean Fin Fang Foom and the Makluans exist too?

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#129470: Jun 25th 2021 at 3:50:41 PM

I still think Fin Fang Foom will be a villain in the sequel. I mean, we see a dragon in the trailer, so it won't be unprecedented for this version of Shang-Chi.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#129471: Jun 25th 2021 at 6:30:44 PM

The primary reason I don't think we'll see Fin Fang Foom in Shang Chi is that full on alien dragons and such aren't really Shang's thing, and having him end up the big bad of a Shang movie would be taking the character so far out of his mythos so as to not really be a Shang Chi movie any more.

Even Mandarin is primarily there to fill a role once held by another character, so the things directly associated with him (like the Ten Rings themselves) get carried over without necessarily taking Shang too far out of his zone, with the dragon we do see being very explicitly a mystical guardian dragon, which while not a Shang-Chi thing, is the kind of thing other Marvel martial arts characters have dabbled in. But beyond that, and you run the risk of Shang Chi's series becoming "all the Iron Man stuff they didn't get to in Iron Man's films, but with a martial arts protagonist instead."

I'd rather see other Shang Chi characters and villains, or at least other characters tied to the Deadly Hands of Kung Fu brand like White Tiger or Iron Fist.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 25th 2021 at 6:31:58 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#129472: Jun 25th 2021 at 6:36:48 PM

They could prolly make an Enter the Dragon/Mortal Kombat type movie with several of Marvel’s martial artists similar to how DC made the Batman: Soul of the Dragon film starring guys like Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, and Richard Dragon along with Batman.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#129473: Jun 25th 2021 at 9:49:00 PM

I was kind of hoping for a while that there would be a scene where Wenwu is, say, watching a recording of Tony’s funeral and taking satisfaction in having outlived him.

I feel like he wouldn't care since they never met personally.

Edited by Cortez on Jun 29th 2021 at 4:57:54 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#129474: Jun 25th 2021 at 9:51:49 PM

If the MCU has proven anything, it’s that it doesn’t take a lot to turn someone into an arch-nemesis declaring war on Tony Stark. tongue

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#129475: Jun 25th 2021 at 10:43:13 PM

One of my usual jokes here is ask a simple question for the next spiderman villian: what did tony stark did this time?.tongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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