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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128676: May 27th 2021 at 11:35:42 PM

I'd be okay with Kl'Rt at some point being a good guy, but I think he needs to start out and fight the F4 using their powers as a villain, and Secret Invasion would be the perfect place to introduce him as a physical threat before he gains their superpowers.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#128677: May 27th 2021 at 11:35:52 PM

[up][up] It doesn't have to be racist to be unrealistic (and my initial objection had little to do with race specifically).

Ultimately, the problem is it's a perception that a) people are evil because of percentages, rather than those percentages being borne of context, and b) that fiction needs to reflect those percentages in order to be perceived as realistic, neither of which are very realistic ways of perceiving morality or the means in which stories try to explore it.

Ultimately, as I pointed out before, the generalization involved is what makes it difficult to buy as realistic.

[up] Thinking more on it, I had an interesting idea about how we could have an antagonistic (or anti-heroic) Kl'Rt while maintaining the characterization the Skrulls have had so far: just make him Magneto. He gets empowered, and decides that in vengeance for what the Kree have done to his people, he will in turn wipe out the Kree.

It's still the kind of ground Marvel isn't great at handling these days (though they did do "genocide doesn't become right just because the people being targeted are evil" in Thor 1), but it would - especially - give him an interesting concept for use in something like The Marvels.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 27th 2021 at 11:42:42 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128678: May 27th 2021 at 11:47:44 PM

Honestly I'd just go with their being a royalty faction who wants to bring back the Skrull Imperial empire and have guys like Talos be against them.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128679: May 27th 2021 at 11:53:15 PM

I think the important thing in Secret Invasion is that the group of evil Skrulls secretly invading is a smaller group than the good Skrulls just enjoying the peaceful life Carol fought for them to have, represented by Talos.

Hell, if it's been 40 years since Captain Marvel, maybe this group of evil Skrulls is a bunch of young people who were born after Carol fought the Kree off and secured safe lives for the Skrull population, and who haven't known any personal prejudice but want revenge on the Kree. Something like Hody Jones and the New Fishman Pirates in One Piece.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#128680: May 28th 2021 at 6:22:43 AM

Ok, the thing is, are we sure the group of Skrulls we saw in Captain Marvel are the only Skrulls alive then? Even if it is, it can easily be retconed.

I can see that there was other group totally unrelated and unknown to the ones we saw in the movie, and become resentful and fueled by the idea of revenge againts the Kree, becoming the imperialist Skrull of the comics.

The plot then can be them invading Earth to gain a stronghold in the incoming war againts the Kree, and and Talos group trying to convince the other skrulls that the path they choose is wrong, or something like that.

I mean, it was a whole friking planet, acting like some other group aside from Talos survived and got blinded by their rage and desire of revenge that they become evil imperialist like their comics counterpart (even more if said group include survivors of the military and monarchy) is not imposible, or bad when we have Talos group as a foil.

Edited by eligram on May 28th 2021 at 9:35:40 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#128681: May 28th 2021 at 6:32:16 AM

I do fully agree that just going "oh but some refugees are actually evil" is really awful and plays right into really toxic centrist dogwhistles. When I mentioned Unfortunate Implications that was at least one of them.

That said I can't help but be more fond for the comics relationship where the Skrulls are effectively the Klingons to the Kree's Romulans. Here the Kree are Always Chaotic Evil ethnonationalist imperialists and the Skrulls are one race that the Kree are doing better at hunting to extermination among many. It's a much simpler conflict, with ideas like "Kree sleeper cells" intended to further simplify it by doubling down on the Kree as Nazis/Hydra In Space, and the things that'd actually make it more interesting on the Kree side I can't see Disney/Marvel doing, at least no more than they did in Captain Marvel, and until we get the likes of Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell, or Noh-Varr we don't have any representatives of the Kree that aren't just straight-up evil. Teddy Altman is meant to be the savior and unifier of the Kree and Skrull but here there's nothing to unify, The Kree just have to be stopped.

Soooo yeah, the MCU Skrulls are unambiguously good guys, they're not even a Proud Warrior Race because they're too weak and scattered to be warriors at all let alone proud ones, and that's an issue when so much comics Skrull material hinges on the Skrulls being at least a bit evil. So you either have to rewrite the material to sanitize it for the more heroic Skrulls or you have to darken the Skrulls to make the material match more, and the latter is overall easier but it does require a lot of effort to not plunge into the aforementioned dogwhistles.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#128682: May 28th 2021 at 10:59:14 AM

Hmm ... what if Kree vs. Skrulls ends up being a Soviet Union vs. Afghanistan situation? One side is clearly the invaders and aggressors and needs to be stopped, but once they're forced out, that doesn't mean the freedom fighters who take power are going to be nice people.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#128683: May 28th 2021 at 11:06:24 AM

I can't imagine a scenario where Talos and Co at least don't stay unambiguous good guys.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#128684: May 28th 2021 at 12:23:39 PM

Rumors are once again flying over Spider-Man No Way Home and explaining the large amount of casting rumors.

https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews1/status/1398330763377000448?s=20

Said rumor is that this will be a Sinister Six movie with the Willem Dafoe Green Goblin leading the Six.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#128685: May 28th 2021 at 12:34:01 PM

As I always abide by in the leadup to this film, not putting any faith in this sort of thing unless I hear from a credible source.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128686: May 28th 2021 at 1:46:50 PM

Its hard not to,clickbait is too tempting

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128687: May 28th 2021 at 1:49:43 PM

I know it prolly would have been too dark to adapt, but its a shame that with the Sony announcement of the Kraven movie, we might not see an adaptation of Kraven's Last Hunt or Kraven at all in these movies.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#128688: May 28th 2021 at 4:22:43 PM

Yeah, it seen a this point secret invation can tbe use as it is, which I wont be surprised considering they did the same with civil war, I can imagine something like skrull atacking kree sleeper agent with force, getting out of hand, the avenger atack the skrull until people figure out the truth.

Is the only way I can see that plotline working.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#128689: May 28th 2021 at 5:11:46 PM

Obvious clickbait is obvious. It's also worth noting that they already have enough Spidey rogues for the Sinister Six (Vulture, Shocker, Scorpion, Mysterio(*), Ock, and Electro).

(*) Keeping in mind that regardless of whether Beck's death was an illusion, pretty much anybody in his crew could "be" Mysterio with absolutely no problem, so there's no reason for the character not to come back.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128690: May 29th 2021 at 12:32:12 AM

Also, Prowler and Chameleon were set up in Homecoming and Far From Home, respectively. I think it's likely they'll use those two instead of Mysterio and either Vulture or Shocker.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#128691: May 29th 2021 at 4:15:26 AM

At this point, it's pretty naïve to think there's nothing to these rumours, and there's no way Sony and Marvel will let the cat out of the bag until they're good and ready, but with the same stories continuing to circulate with no fresh variation, safe to say it's all going to prove legit.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128692: May 29th 2021 at 4:32:44 AM

I heard a rumour on the internet that Spiderman gets a cloned like a thousand times and there's a huge spiderman clone war

what?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeadlyAssassin Last of the Stellarians from Helsinki Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Last of the Stellarians
#128693: May 29th 2021 at 6:10:53 AM

Somehow I doubt they're planning on adapting the clone saga...

Children of Dievas - my webcomic about the Northern Crusades
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128694: May 29th 2021 at 7:04:20 AM

I literally just woke up from a dream I had about a trailer for an Iron Man 4, starring... Robert Downey Jr as Tony Stark.

The trailer opens with "Tony Stark is back!" He comes onto a stage with pyrotechnics and rockstars around while Pepper is slack-jawed. We see reaction shots of the other heroes, who are watching him on tv and their phones, also completely baffled. Pepper hugs him and looks very happy and relieved but confused, and she asks him "How are you alive?" He says "I don't know, but I'm back, and I love you." as he kisses her, Pepper is still confused.

We see Tony now is walking with a crutch and has an injured arm and leg in casts on the side he Snapped with, but is otherwise fine. He's walking around his estate with the crutch, taking it in. We see Tony drinking, drinking heavily, more so than he used to. We hear voice-over from Tony that his wounds aren't healing, for some reason they're getting worse, as he clutches his arm in pain.

And we see a silhouette of our villain, which appears to be The Lizard in a lab. We get a shot of Dr Kurt Conners doing sciency stuff in the lab, he's played by the same actor as in Amazing Spider-Man 1. We get some action shots of Iron Man, all suited up, fighting the Lizard in the lab. Tony inside the suit doesn't appear to be doing too hot, though, and the Lizard attaches a larger metal gauntlet onto the Iron Man suit, which interferes with its systems and disables that arm. The trailer ends with Iron Man flying straight up outside, pushing the Lizard higher and higher in the sky, into the upper atmosphere.

The implication I got from the dream is that this Tony Stark isn't the real one, he's a clone created by Lizard in a lab, that's why his arm and leg are bad and getting worse; underneath those casts they're not scarred from battle, they're defective from the cloning process.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 29th 2021 at 7:09:08 AM

jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#128696: May 29th 2021 at 8:10:51 PM

Assuming that the Doctor octopus and Electro are the same as in the previous movies, and they are not just repeating actors.

  • Peter Parker: But, how is this possible?
  • Doctor Octopus: The mad side of the science is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#128697: May 29th 2021 at 8:20:26 PM

"Somehow, Doctor Octopus returned" tongue

AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#128698: May 30th 2021 at 5:26:02 AM

[up]

Green Goblin: I am all the Goblins!
Spider-Man: And I am all the Spider-People!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128699: May 30th 2021 at 5:27:22 AM

Man we are gonna run Spider-Verse down to the ground. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#128700: May 30th 2021 at 5:37:37 AM

Well pushover, Considering you manage to guess Thor raganrok would use plot beat from planet hulk when nobody believe you, I will said "sure, why not"

That or that you see and alrernate future, whatever suit you besttongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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