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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128626: May 27th 2021 at 11:45:11 AM

The Captain Marvel movie had Mar-Vell as a Kree fighting against Kree oppression. And it had Talos acknowledge that the Skrulls did some shady shit

I think we’re already at a point where it’s not black and white but where in the conflict between Skrulls and Kree, as long as the Kree goal is to wipe out all Skrulls the Skrulls should be portrayed as the more sympathetic

And now that the decision to make the Skrulls refugees has already been made, there’s a lot of comics material that would be a bad idea to use combined with that portrayal

Edited by Bocaj on May 27th 2021 at 2:46:03 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#128627: May 27th 2021 at 11:48:52 AM

The MCU Skrulls are already a Gray faction. They did shady stuff like mind-probing Carol and Talos notes he’s had to commit acts he regrets in times of war. They have a good reason for needing a win, but they’ll play dirty to to do it, Introducing an evil faction of Skrulls for alleged “moral ambiguity” seems to dilute what’s already there.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 27th 2021 at 11:49:01 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#128628: May 27th 2021 at 11:53:42 AM

The point of Odin is that we do not know what the stances are for the Eternals or if it would be portrayed as a good thing.

The fact that now they have decided to come out of the woods after Thanos' genocide suggest that their previous stance has been called into question. That maybe, they should have intervene a lot more than they did.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128629: May 27th 2021 at 12:00:16 PM

I'm fond of Eternals getting their butts kicked so badly they were out of action for awhile

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128630: May 27th 2021 at 12:01:03 PM

Correct. Like I said, this direction is perilous. I use that word as opposed to something more condemning like "bad" because it's something that can be done well, but that takes careful consideration of the material being created and where it exists in context to both the existing material and the greater context of the "Like Reality But" universe.

Based on what was presented in that trailer, the creators behind the Eternals need to tread carefully. They're walking on dangerous ice. There are many ways to do this poorly and only a few to do it well.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 27th 2021 at 12:02:33 PM

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FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#128631: May 27th 2021 at 12:09:29 PM

Secret Wars Invasion is going to take place in the modern day, correct? If so it's worth noting the situation with the Skrulls and Kree might have changed quite a bit in the forty-ish years since Captain Marvel.

Edited by FGHIK on May 27th 2021 at 2:29:58 PM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#128632: May 27th 2021 at 12:14:42 PM

I have faith in the writer of Secret Invasion, so I think we'll get an interesting show while avoiding anything too heavy handed in regards to Kree/Skull politics.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128633: May 27th 2021 at 12:15:53 PM

[up]×3

It could just be that they were defending the earth from something else.

Edited by Cortez on May 27th 2021 at 3:47:08 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#128634: May 27th 2021 at 12:25:07 PM

The issue with the current MCU Kree-Skrull relationship is that the Kree are presented as effectively an Evil Empire while the only thing we've seen of the Skrulls is Talos' faction of refugee stragglers. It's so lopsided that Talos can be presented so unambiguously as a good guy that him doing some memory probing on Carol earlier doesn't even register.

I actually wouldn't mind the Skrulls being presented a bit more villainously, maybe having Talos' faction be just that: a faction of a larger Skrull network that makes the conflict closer to that comics' Evil vs. Evil. Definitely tricky to do given the current setup because the way they've been repainted you can dive straight into Unfortunate Implications if you do it badly, but I do think it can be done right and I'd kinda like to see some more of that classic bad guy Skrull stuff.

...At the very least the current makeup of the MCU Skrulls makes it challenging to adopt some of the more Skrullian things, from everything with Secret Invasion to certain Skrulls like Kl'rt to shit like the Skrull Kill Krew.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#128635: May 27th 2021 at 12:28:43 PM

Secret Invasion, Secret Wars is a different storyline all together.

Whoops, my mistake

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128636: May 27th 2021 at 12:38:09 PM

Secret Wars, with a Wars, would need a lot of adjusting to adapt into the MCU.

There's the cast for it, that's easy enough. The original Secret Wars had a big cast but it didn't have that big a cast relative to the entire superhero/villain population.

But the concept of disappearing to a patchwork planet for 12 issues would be a harder sell. While the MCU has imperiled places that aren't Earth, it tries to throw in Earth if possible.

Edited by Bocaj on May 27th 2021 at 3:38:20 PM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128637: May 27th 2021 at 12:55:25 PM

> It could just be that they were defending the earth from something else.

wild mass guessThey were holding back Galactus long enough so Thanos could be defeated

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128638: May 27th 2021 at 1:00:39 PM

To properly do the concept justice, Secret Wars would need to be a whole-ass phase. You'd want to get everyone in on that. A patchwork reality made of all the big places we've seen before like New York, Wakanda, Hala, Knowhere, the Dark Dimension, Titan (pre-wipeout?!), etc.

Get absolutely everyone in on that mess. Bring back Tony, Steve, Nat, Pietro, Coulson, etc. Bring back a bunch of villains already dead like Thanos, Ronan, and Loki plus dump in others yet to be resolved like Dormammu and maybe even some new wicked personas like Doom. Make a bunch of different movies starring what's going on in this character's sphere of Battleworld and what's happening in that character's, having them fight new villains and old villains that fit into this specific context. Bring it all together for the big Avengers film where the Beyonder reveals himself and everything hits its apex.

Maybe, just maybe, Peter Parker finds the Venom symbiote.

Maybe, just maybe, Galactus.

It'd be wild.

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#128639: May 27th 2021 at 1:08:40 PM

Don't we need Molecule Man for Secret Wars?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128640: May 27th 2021 at 1:10:31 PM

too similar to Antman for non comic book fans

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#128641: May 27th 2021 at 1:14:22 PM

Could just call him Owen Reece then.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128642: May 27th 2021 at 1:19:48 PM

Owen makes Galactus shit bricks.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128643: May 27th 2021 at 1:20:45 PM

Isn't Molecule Man's power reality warping?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#128644: May 27th 2021 at 1:21:35 PM

[up][up]"Tread carefully. He can end you with a thought..."

[up]Originally he was just a dumb silver-age FF villain whose power was used for stuff like making ice or glass manifest out of air.

Later writers realized just how stupidly powerful he is and made him basically a less detached (and less naked) version of Doctor Manhatten.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on May 27th 2021 at 4:26:18 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#128645: May 27th 2021 at 1:23:01 PM

What he is tends to vary wildly, honestly. Just as his Power Level. In his early stories, he was basically God. Later he was toned down a bit. Then he got toned up again in Secret Wars (2015).

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128646: May 27th 2021 at 1:35:26 PM

Molecule Man is one of the most confusing concepts in a comic book universe full of confusing concepts. He's a single multiversal entity; every Molecule Man in every universe is knowingly a fraction of the greater Molecule Man. Different versions of Owen Reece don't exist in different realities and lead different lives and usually gain superpowers; rather, there is ONE Owen Reece who exists in all realities simultaneously.

But he's also a totally normal dude who acquired superpowers from a freak science accident one day in the 616 universe.

These two points are difficult to reconcile.

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lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128647: May 27th 2021 at 1:39:42 PM

I wonder if an MCU version of Molecule Man would go with that concept or try to ignore it and do its own thing with him. The MCU has already violated the multiversal rule that Infinity Stones don't work outside the universe they originated from (unless the alternate timelines are all considered part of Earth-199999).

Edited by lbssb on May 27th 2021 at 1:41:53 AM

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#128648: May 27th 2021 at 1:41:49 PM

I think it's safe to assume that, even if it's formally called Earth-199999, the movies don't consider themselves a specific universe within the larger Marvel multiverse, just an adaptation.

We're not gonna see 616 Spider-Man jump over and get into a finger-pointing match with Tom Holland Spidey.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128649: May 27th 2021 at 1:45:26 PM

Maybe the MCU is in its own separate multiverse, kind of like how the Arrow multiverse includes all DC's live-action stuff but none of the comics or cartoons.

Actually, hold up, come to think of it, didn't Tom Holland show up briefly in Spider-Geddon? And Maguire and Garfield had Lawyer-Friendly Cameo mentions in the original Spider-Verse, and they're probably showing up here, too... aggh my brain hurts now.

Edited by lbssb on May 27th 2021 at 1:47:30 AM

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Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#128650: May 27th 2021 at 1:47:43 PM

I'd personally put on the 2015 Secret Wars being the finale to a Myth Arc somewhere down the line.


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