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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#128551: May 25th 2021 at 7:05:07 PM

Right now my assumption is that the "modern" story of the Eternals will be in chronology between Shang-Chi and Spider-Man: NWH, so maybe a year-ish after the blip.

While Marvel doesn't always strict to strict chronological order even for movies that aren't explicit prequels, it's still a good starting point.

In addition I wouldn't be surprised if they end up tweaking the origin of the Ten Rings to be Eternal tech. A detail that might not be especially important to the plot of Shang-Chi, but it would revealed in a post credit scene that would in turn set up the events of the Eternals.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#128552: May 25th 2021 at 7:39:00 PM

Or shatter all expectations and make them magical, forged with the fire of a dragon *coughFinFangFoomcough*.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128553: May 25th 2021 at 7:45:39 PM

[up][up]Shang-Chi probably won't set up Eternals, since before COVID, Eternals was supposed to come first.

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Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#128554: May 25th 2021 at 8:05:00 PM

[up] Shang-Chi was partially filmed during the pandemic and Eternals did have at least some minor reshoots post-shutdown, not to mention post production. So it's quite possible that the order was flipped precisely because it made more sense given the final version of each film.

Ultimately what I'm proposing is that, within the context of Shang-Chi, the precise origin of the Ten Rings isn't super important beyond being "not of this world". The Eternals connection wouldn't even be formally revealed until a post-credit scene.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#128555: May 26th 2021 at 6:49:46 AM

Soooo sorry I'm a bit late about this, but what are the reactions so far about the Eternals trailer? Personally I am not sure what to feel, in good or bad. I am at the very least intrigued; along with Sang-Chi, it's characters I never heard about before, so I genuinely don't know what to expect.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128556: May 26th 2021 at 7:22:51 AM

I'm tentative. The trailer carelessly invokes "European ships arriving on foreign shores for the first time" imagery which is a perilous way to introduce an audience to characters they're meant to support. At the very least, it demonstrates a lack of understanding that this imagery is bad.

This is going to be a hard story to tell without running into either the "Ancient Aliens racist conspiracies" pitfall or the "Allowed Holocaust (and similar major atrocities) to happen because they're all unlikable assholes who are fine who see genocide as someone else's problem" pitfall.

If they've been shepherding and cultivating humanity, that's a perilous direction. If they've been hiding out and refusing to use their powers to stop brutal acts of horror from being committed against millions of people because "Not muh problem what happens to inferior beings," that's also a perilous direction. Straddling a line between these is extremely difficult, and the implications from the teaser seems to be that they're going to run full steam straight into the first one.

Black Panther pulled it off by a) not having the characters in question be space gods but keeping them on the same level as everyone else, and b) asserting that Wakanda was doing wrong by refusing to get involved, that their isolationism was unjust and inhumane, and resolving to enter fully into the world around them that they've spent so many years hiding from. It can be done. But the trailer doesn't give me hope that the filmmakers understand that the pitfalls exist, which is always a bad sign for their chances of avoiding them.

Still, there is basically zero plot in this teaser, so maybe the next actual trailer will put some of these concerns at ease.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 26th 2021 at 7:24:28 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128557: May 26th 2021 at 7:30:35 AM

For me the Eternals don't look interesting enough,they need to be interesting and capture my attention the same the new gods do really

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128558: May 26th 2021 at 7:32:54 AM

A full trailer might also fix that. All we get is a montage of cool action scenes in this teaser devoid of any context. That might work for an established character that you can look at and go, "Whoa, look how cool it looks when they use their powers on the big screen!" But since the Eternals are relative unknowns, context-free action does little to create interest.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128559: May 26th 2021 at 7:39:59 AM

It's not even action scenes, it's just scenery shots and some small shots of powers being used.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#128560: May 26th 2021 at 9:40:49 AM

My reaction to the Eternals trailer was:

'Oh well. That exists. '

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Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128561: May 26th 2021 at 10:01:08 AM

Yeah, like I said, sunset clifftop shots are nice and all, but I was hoping for something more...psychedelic looking. Or at least something that was less that Real Is Brown coloring that seems to plague many of their films.

Revive the New Gods movie!!!!

Ah-hem.

This is going to be a hard story to tell without running into either the "Ancient Aliens racist conspiracies" pitfall or the "Allowed Holocaust (and similar major atrocities) to happen because they're all unlikable assholes who are fine who see genocide as someone else's problem" pitfall.

Someone linked a tweet about this upthread and I kinda liked that "we've just been hibernating King Arthur style for a bit" pitch. Although I guess investment in the Avengers already disproves that way out.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 26th 2021 at 12:01:18 PM

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Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#128562: May 26th 2021 at 10:47:11 AM

Honestly, I’m reminded of Trevor Noah’s talk of how the Holocaust isn’t really that exceptional when you open your eyes to other genocides in the past. It’s just that the Holocaust is the one that directly happened in front of Europeans and thus they cannot ignore it.

And obviously, after Thanos did a genocide on a universal level, this is something that Eternals can’t ignore.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#128563: May 26th 2021 at 11:11:50 AM

I think part of it might just be that for all of their technology, there's only so much ground 10 individuals can cover if they want to keep a low profile.

And not keeping a low profile would result in them setting themselves up as gods, which would result in a whole different set of problems.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#128564: May 26th 2021 at 11:18:06 AM

The world is a big place and Hollywood (and its audience) tends to underestimate how big it truly is.

And if I have to be frank, this running to Superman Stays Out of Gotham territory and becomes less of genuine questions and more of unreasonable demands for superpowered beings to solve every single problem on the planet... or be criticized for making the hard work of regular humans feel unnecessary because they try to solve problems.

Edited by Shadao on May 26th 2021 at 11:19:07 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#128565: May 26th 2021 at 11:18:48 AM

The Gaiman run gave the Eternals Identity Amnesia and the current Gillen run introduces a Reincarnation mechanic tied to the Earth. Maybe some combination of the two would suffice enough? Would certainly make shit easy.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#128566: May 26th 2021 at 12:00:09 PM

I also probably wouldn't take the line in the teaser about not interfering too literally.

They nudge things along and guide people, which may be interference of a kind, but it's not using the raw power of their technology to force humanity down a path of their choosing.

So they very well might of been active during some of humanity's darker chapters. But their influence was more subtle or smaller scales.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#128567: May 26th 2021 at 12:12:59 PM

That true.

Like, maybe they see humans on the verge of something, and just give them the right poke to help them figure it out on their own, rather than flat out guiding them.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#128568: May 26th 2021 at 12:22:23 PM

So Ares in Wonder Woman, but hopefully more benevolent.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 26th 2021 at 12:22:37 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#128570: May 26th 2021 at 4:10:20 PM

My first thought is some (presumably evil) government official.

Also, looking him up, it’s cool that he’s voiced both Jor-el and an older Superman.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128571: May 26th 2021 at 5:01:24 PM

The Eternals don't want to hold the humans hands, rule humans or be worshipped by them.

Their job is to protect Humans from the deviants and not to interfere otherwise.

Edited by Cortez on May 26th 2021 at 8:15:47 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#128572: May 26th 2021 at 5:07:26 PM

Honestly, I'm reminded of Trevor Noah's talk of how the Holocaust isn't really that exceptional when you open your eyes to other genocides in the past. It’s just that the Holocaust is the one that directly happened in front of Europeans and thus they cannot ignore it.

And obviously, after Thanos did a genocide on a universal level, this is something that Eternals can't ignore.

That could work if they lean into the kinda shitty morality, like they did with Black Panther. "We cannot ignore this horrific crime that affected us!" "...what about all these other horrific crimes that happened right under your noses?"

And if I have to be frank, this running to Superman Stays Out of Gotham territory and becomes less of genuine questions and more of unreasonable demands for superpowered beings to solve every single problem on the planet... or be criticized for making the hard work of regular humans feel unnecessary because they try to solve problems.

The problem with superpowered beings solving problems is that it takes things too far from the real world and what audiences will have experience with. Yes, if pseudo-gods actually existed they should be doing everything they can to help the world without outright conquering it. But since they don't actually exist, it can easily feel like a Space Whale Aesop of "we should wait for the nigh-omnipotent gods who are hiding amongst us to handle everything," which, you know, isn't really a reasonable thing to do.

Edited by Discar on May 26th 2021 at 5:07:34 AM

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Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128573: May 26th 2021 at 5:10:00 PM

The narration in the trailer is literally "We have watched and guided; we have helped them progress.[...]We have never interfered until now."

It's only natural to be curious about what "guided" means and how exactly that differs from "interfere", especially with the context of the universe-threatening Snap.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 26th 2021 at 7:10:33 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128574: May 26th 2021 at 5:11:59 PM

Unrelated but I just now realized that if The Marvels introduced Teddy Kaplan/Hulkling, then he can't be Mar-Vell's kid because if he was born before Captain Marvel in the 90s then he would be an adult by now.

Man I wonder who'd they pick to be his Kree parent.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128575: May 26th 2021 at 5:14:04 PM

Mar-Vell already has one test tube baby in the comics. And Teddy never met his dad anyway.

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