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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#128026: May 10th 2021 at 3:26:01 PM

[up][up][up][up] I’d argue that that sort of armored look is ill-suited for the sort of gravity-defying acrobatics you see Spider-Man doing (outside some situational uses, I suppose). And even putting aside that, I feel like it just looks kind of ugly for a Spidey look, regardless of practicality.

Now, obviously this sort of thing is subjective, and not every character is well-suited (heh) for every type of costume, or even needs a costume at all. As [up] says, the militarized look is not always appropriate, but I could buy it working for some characters (Cap does it fine, though I do think it can look kind of ass when he’s drawn that way a lot of the time).

At the same time...I can’t help shake the feeling that complaining about heroes wearing spandex is about the same as going to a performance of, say, Peter Pan, and standing up in the audience and shouting “Hey, I can see the wires!”

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on May 10th 2021 at 6:28:40 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128027: May 10th 2021 at 3:28:00 PM

Batman now regularly gets designed in incredibly over-armored suits with lines all over it.

And even Superman of all people engaged in it with Kryptonian armor suit from The New 52.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#128028: May 10th 2021 at 3:30:18 PM

Uh dont remind me.

At least Batman has always had a tech suit.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128029: May 10th 2021 at 3:31:04 PM

You act like he couldn't pull that off.

I'm really only half-joking, he probably could.

He has and I don't like it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#128030: May 10th 2021 at 4:52:46 PM

I'm also generally not as thrilled with mechanical suits. Although it can be an interesting change of pace when spandex characters use them.

One take on spandex that I do find cool is where the spandex actually has the benefits of armor and includes hidden high tech doohickies. Thinking of examples like (for heroes) Black Panther, Spider-Man in the MCU, and presumably now Sam!Cap in the MCU or (for villains) Green Goblin and Janice Lincoln Beetle.

I like it both in terms of style, and because it can make a character subtly very inimidating, because while they look like they are unprotected, they are actually Immune to Bullets, etc.

Speaking of Janice, I'll note again that besides being a cool character, she would be perfect for the MCU, because her costume is basically bulletproof spandex plus Wasp's wings and Iron Man's gauntlets.

Edited by Hodor2 on May 10th 2021 at 6:54:35 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#128031: May 10th 2021 at 4:54:05 PM

The suit that Spidey wears in the PS4 came shown above also has that going for it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#128032: May 10th 2021 at 5:16:19 PM

Like I said, superheroes and supervillains are always (explicitly or implicitly) philosophical figures. They're draped in bizarre symbols and colors because they want to represent something. When The Vulture asks Shocker "What is this, pro wrestling?" he's actually correct. It is pro wrestling.

The Captain America franchise is actually one of the few of the MCU that actually really gets this, with everyone and their mothers talking about the meaning of a guy draped in the US flag. It's a deliberate philosophical statement.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#128033: May 10th 2021 at 5:18:48 PM

I generally prefer the hyper-advanced nanotech magic unstable molecule suits for any character who does a lot of flips or martial arts. 65 pounds of body armor is usually not conducive to flying kicks.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#128034: May 10th 2021 at 5:20:47 PM

And Superman, THE codifying, archetypal superhero, started it all with an outfit based on circus strongmen and wrestlers.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 10th 2021 at 5:21:31 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#128035: May 10th 2021 at 5:38:55 PM

"At the same time...I can’t help shake the feeling that complaining about heroes wearing spandex is about the same as going to a performance of, say, Peter Pan, and standing up in the audience and shouting 'Hey, I can see the wires!"

How so? Explain in at least ten full-length paragraphs and continue the argument for three pages.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#128036: May 10th 2021 at 5:53:35 PM

It's a Necessary Weasel, the way stage shows involving flight often have obvious wire stunts (for a slightly more on topic example, here's an image from Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark): Most of the time you just gotta roll with it as a convention of the genre.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 10th 2021 at 7:53:50 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#128037: May 10th 2021 at 6:33:37 PM

[up]Thank you but I understood the metaphor, I was questioning the relevance of that metaphor. A convention of the genre, an expected trope, yes. A Necessary Weasel? Ummmmm...

And even then, it's not like one can't criticize the conventions of the genre or should be seen as "petty" and "needing to just get a stick out of their butt". We can allow for different tastes of the same thing.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 10th 2021 at 6:34:09 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#128038: May 10th 2021 at 6:44:43 PM

Honestly if their still keeping it this much of a secret. I wonder if their supposed to secretly be one of widow's team. As otherwise it seems weird to keepit secret this long.

The main theory I've seen is that Taskmaster is actually Melina Vostokoff, Natasha's surrogate mother played by Rachel Weisz.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#128039: May 10th 2021 at 6:47:04 PM

So, asking again, who is Yelena in the comics?

Edited by Blueace on May 10th 2021 at 9:47:16 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#128040: May 10th 2021 at 6:53:32 PM

[up]x3 I was admittedly something I said more because I thought it sounded good rather than because the metaphor was fully thought out. I suppose you could view it as part of how you convey at a glance to the audience that this character is a superhero, rather than a random guy who can fly or shoot lightning from his eyes.

A more apt comparison might be kuroko in Japanese theatre, who are basically stagehands who dress in all black to signify to the audience that they are not part of the action onstage. Likewise, bright, colorful costumes in the superhero genre signify to the audience, even without any additional context, that these are the guys who are going to be beating the snot out of each other. It basically helps to scream to the audience “I’M IMPORTANT!”

I’m largely talking out of my ass here, but I think I might be onto something.

More to the point, costumes are good because they help make characters visually distinct. That’s not to say that characters can’t be visually distinct in their civvies, and there are characters who it wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense for them to be dressed up in bright colors all the time - Black Widow, Jessica Jones, and the Runaways all come to mind. But I feel like that if you have a team of pro heroes, and they’re all wearing suits or regular combat armor or whatever...it’s kind of dull, to be honest.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on May 10th 2021 at 9:54:08 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#128041: May 10th 2021 at 6:56:00 PM

With superheroes, it's more like everyone in the world just decided one day that vigilante justice is a great idea, but only if the vigilantes dress in colorful spandex.

I've seen some franchises that justify it by explicitly saying they're basing it on in-universe superhero comics. In Wearing the Cape, the first hero explains early on that a flying man in normal clothes (or worse, armor) is scary and threatening, but a flying man in ridiculous, colorful spandex is obviously at least trying to be a superhero. It puts powered people into a context that people are more familiar with, even if it's a ridiculous context.

And then you've got Grrl Power, where apparently supers instinctively tried to dress in colorful spandex centuries ago but the government made them dress more sensibly because they were still a secret. And modern supers are a little annoyed that their uniforms are obviously military and not at all colorful.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128042: May 10th 2021 at 6:56:29 PM

[up][up] Exactly how I felt during Defenders.

Daredevil was the only character wearing a distinctive ensemble, while Jess and Luke were wearing like the same fucking hoodie.

Whats worse is that its not like Luke needs a super-suit, just clothing with his iconic colors. Give him his yellow tee instead of that shitty-ass hoodie.

Edited by slimcoder on May 10th 2021 at 6:56:41 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#128043: May 10th 2021 at 7:01:03 PM

If you want an in-universe explanation for colorful costumes, just blame it on Captain America. He had an outfit, and everyone else followed his lead.

Most things like these result from years of conditioning to connect two things together. Fashion is especially based off trends.

Edited by Joshbones on May 10th 2021 at 7:01:20 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#128044: May 10th 2021 at 7:04:40 PM

Well, maybe the ones who emerged in the modern era. Thor just kind of dresses like that, though, and Natasha and Clint’s outfits are rather subdued. Tony I guess just wanted to give the armor a nice paint job (still have not seen first Iron Man yet, should fix that).

And Hulk is famously pretty minimalistic, aside from possessing the awesome power of the expanding pants that turn purple.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on May 10th 2021 at 10:10:18 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128045: May 10th 2021 at 7:07:37 PM

I'm amused how the Green Lantern franchise in its entirety has costume inertia.

The normal uniform for a regular GL is still the same spandex style onesie introduced all the way back in the Silver Age with Hal.

Like you'd expect similar modernizations where they start wearing high-tech body armor like with Batman, but thats only happened in the Earth One AU series.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#128046: May 10th 2021 at 7:08:57 PM

The Mark 3 armor was made with a gold alloy to beat the icing problem, and when Tony saw how it would look, he told JARVIS to paint it red. And he is a show-off, so obviously his armors have such paintjobs.

Edited by Blueace on May 10th 2021 at 11:36:08 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#128047: May 10th 2021 at 7:09:32 PM

Ah, ok. That makes sense.

Oh God! Natural light!
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#128048: May 10th 2021 at 7:57:54 PM

Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor each wear flashy costumes for different reasons, and I figure the three of them are enough to set "flashy costumes" as part of the public perception of superheroes. I mean, personally I never question a superhero wearing a flashy costume in the first place.

On the subject of the in-universe origins of heroes costumes: I know that Captain Marvel's suit is a recoloured Kree military uniform because she switched teams mid-movie and just used the suit's built in colour-changing function (that the Kree military included in their uniforms for some reason), but you'd think that at some point after that she would have modified it to not resemble a Kree military uniform at all... Her suit looks normal to us but to the many, many victims of Kree imperialism that has to be the epitome of "a flying woman in militarized clothing is scary and threatening".

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#128049: May 10th 2021 at 10:21:52 PM

I have issues with talking about how awesome armoured costumes are and taking Spider-Man as an example, because Spider-Man is not only one of those characters that don't need heavy armours, but wearing heavy armour would make him worse, both in look and functionalities.

A character who looks better in practical armour than his classic comic look would be Taskmaster.

Edited by Nightwire on May 10th 2021 at 10:37:47 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#128050: May 10th 2021 at 11:16:44 PM

Armor isn't all that practical for Spidey since his power-set helps him to not get hit at all. Armor would just slow him down.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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