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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128001: May 10th 2021 at 10:54:00 AM

If Vanko just needed to make god bleed he could have just been an opening villain and not seen much afterward

Like Batroc for Winter Soldier

Tony’s enemies smell blood in the water, puns, and start coming after him at the same time as his own personal crisis sends him spiraling

You could have adapted a lot of the armor characters here without needing to make them have to carry a movie

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128002: May 10th 2021 at 11:00:48 AM

A big problem with the Iron Man films is that they were all released before the point where the MCU wasn't afraid to go full-on comic-book-y. Like, after Guardians and Doctor Strange I don't think people would be that against some of the more out-there stuff from the Iron Man comics being faithfully replicated, like the Mandarin's alien rings or Extremis the way it works in the comics (kind of a fusing together of man and machine that Tony eventually used to upgrade himself and connect him fully to his armor rather than just something that lets you burn stuff).

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128003: May 10th 2021 at 11:28:01 AM

I do like the idea that Vanko "makes God bleed" in the first act and then does fuck-all for the rest of the film. He shatters Tony's hard-crafted image of the Invincible Iron Man, and the rest of the plot is what happens when the sharks come for him. The government, S.H.I.E.L.D., Hammer Industries, and Tony's own insecurities all converge on Tony at once for the feeding frenzy in the second act.

Ironically, this was simultaneously before Marvel had the long-term vision to have Vanko leave the film after that point to pop up again in a future work (Thunderbolts). And yet, despite this, the film was still bogged down with setup for other movies.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 10th 2021 at 11:29:17 AM

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#128004: May 10th 2021 at 11:58:57 AM

I like Vanko, but something that surprised me was learning that he was the original MCU Draco in Leather Pants. Which admittedly, it really shouldn't come as one considering his actor.

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#128005: May 10th 2021 at 12:04:24 PM

I like these grounded-yet-expressive appearances because they mesh better with my suspension of disbelief. The circular kind of tropes like "Superheroes do this because this is what superheroes do" tend to grate me.

I mean, isn't that how fashion works?

Why do business professionals wear ties? Because that's what business professionals wear. If they didn't wear ties, no one would take them seriously as business professionals.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#128006: May 10th 2021 at 12:16:30 PM

I rolled out a pitch for IM 2 eons ago that indeed had Vanko as a Hannibal Lecter-esque guy behind bars (and Justin Hammer as his contact outside of prison) the entire film while several competing factions create armors and cause chaos all over the world and Stark has to stop the leak from his designs resulting in a couple of Flawed Prototype "iron man knockoffs" (Controller, Titanium Man, Melter,). Have the movie focus entirely on Stark's friendship with Rhodey and end with a four-way brawl between Crimson Dynamo (Vanko), Firepower (the US government's new "Iron Man"), Iron Man and War Machine.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128007: May 10th 2021 at 12:27:45 PM

I mean, isn't that how fashion works?

Why do business professionals wear ties? Because that's what business professionals wear. If they didn't wear ties, no one would take them seriously as business professionals.

Oh, yes, absolutely. Formalwear follows similar circular logic. The world is full of bizarre cultural constructs like that. You wear a suit to be taken seriously as a business professional because business professionals only take people wearing suits seriously. Thus, the suit has a pragmatic function. It fulfills a purpose: identifying you as a For Reals Serious Business Professional, which is necessary for building your career.

What business professionals do is massively dependent on their image. They must normalize their behavior and conform to bizarre social constructs, or they will fail. The goal and the suit go hand in hand.

Superhero costumes have a similar conformity to social constructs, but without the pragmatic function of engaging with it. Superheroes don't conform to a social standard; they're rogue individuals who go their own way and enact their own brand of justice however they see fit. The costume doesn't help them fight crime better (except in exceptional cases like Iron Man, where it absolutely does). Except they totally do conform to the genre convention of what a superhero is, and they do it on purpose to be more superhero-like.

With superheroes, it's more like everyone in the world just decided one day that vigilante justice is a great idea, but only if the vigilantes dress in colorful spandex.

Like I said, it's a personal beef under the larger category of "Superheroes have an awful lot of norms and expectations for not even being a quantifiable thing." The comics brought the genre conventions in-universe and made them into a culture, and it weirds me out.

That being my perspective, I failed to notice anything wrong with Killian's costuming until it was pointed out.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 10th 2021 at 12:30:19 PM

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KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#128008: May 10th 2021 at 12:34:27 PM

I don’t think it’s an inherent problem that Killian doesn’t have a costume - neither does Kingpin, really, and he still does fine - but I do think in his case, it only serves to highlight that he’s not particularly interesting or charismatic. I mean, we’ve already gone into the issues with his motivation, and when it comes to his powerset...I dunno, never seemed very distinct to me. The most I remember is the part where he breathes fire, which is really only memorable because of how out of nowhere it is.

Now I don’t really know what else Guy Pierce has been in, but I do feel confident in saying that when it comes to the MCU, Robert Redford he ain’t.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on May 10th 2021 at 3:36:54 PM

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128009: May 10th 2021 at 12:37:54 PM

He also has that stupid dragon tattoo.

Who the fuck does he think is a Yakuza?

Edited by slimcoder on May 10th 2021 at 12:38:03 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128010: May 10th 2021 at 12:41:39 PM

That was apparently Shane Black's way of telling us that Killian is totes the MCU's real Mandarin because he apparently thinks that the character never evolved from the blatant stereotype he was in the Silver Age.

Not kidding, in interviews he's been bizarrely insistent on that, and even once admitted he was unaware that the Mandarin is Iron Man's arch-nemesis in the comics. The stuff later writers did to update the character beyond the stereotype never gets mentioned, it's all just "he started as nothing more than a Yellow Peril character, which means he's still nothing more than that."

Edited by lbssb on May 10th 2021 at 12:44:35 PM

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VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#128011: May 10th 2021 at 12:42:04 PM

He went hard on aping the Mandarin, he got to do it with style you know: gratuituous tatoos and all

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#128012: May 10th 2021 at 12:43:14 PM

> Who the fuck does he think is a Yakuza?

hey man dont tattoo shame

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#128013: May 10th 2021 at 12:46:04 PM

several[up] Depends how much the superheroes engage with their public image. You've got plenty who work directly with the government or law enforcement agencies (or, conversely, are hunted by those agencies), appear at charity events, join established superhero teams.

Certainly, it's often helpful if a hero can show up somewhere and people instantly recognize which hero has come to help. Guy in a blue outfit with a big A on his forehead shows up, you know it's Captain America and you can trust him to protect the lives of everyone there. Without the costume, people might think they're dealing with Deadpool, and be considerably less comforted.

Edited by RavenWilder on May 10th 2021 at 12:46:27 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#128014: May 10th 2021 at 12:59:46 PM

Trying to think of what codified the superhero suit as a thing superheroes do in-universe. I guess the earliest would be the Asgardians but most on Earth didn’t get a good look at them. The Wakandans have had the Black Panther tradition for ages but that wasn’t known outside their country. The Eternals were gods on Earth, but the myths don’t really record spandex. And Captain America is The First Avenger, so I guess his outfit would be the codifying example of the superhero suit to most of the public.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 10th 2021 at 1:01:00 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#128015: May 10th 2021 at 1:25:33 PM

Wait, I missed a lot. Are we arguing whether the MCU should have supersuits or not?

... Do we really want to go back to "Leather Quest 2000"?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#128016: May 10th 2021 at 1:29:25 PM

[up]...No? Nobody was arguing a "should we" thing. I also hardly think those are the only two options.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 10th 2021 at 1:30:31 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#128017: May 10th 2021 at 1:31:10 PM

Just as long as Old Man Steve doesn’t put on an American flag toga

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#128018: May 10th 2021 at 1:44:29 PM

You act like he couldn't pull that off.

I'm really only half-joking, he probably could.

Edited by lbssb on May 10th 2021 at 1:45:16 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128019: May 10th 2021 at 2:58:38 PM

"Everybody wears black leather" isn't an alternative to super suits. It's a different kind of super suit.

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Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#128020: May 10th 2021 at 3:01:58 PM

Just asking now, but what's the story of Yelena and the Red Guardian, since they are gonna appear in Black Widow? It wouldn't surprise if they are very different in the comics, but still.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#128021: May 10th 2021 at 3:05:52 PM

On that note, 6 new character posters for Black Widow unveiled.

Taskmaster’s actor is still a total mystery.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#128022: May 10th 2021 at 3:05:53 PM

I should note that I do like suits like this. You put armor plates on the character and it's like, "Oh, okay. It's so he has something to stop a bullet. It's stylish and personalized, but there's a function there."

It's the suits like this that leave me shrugging my shoulders and going, "Superhero gotta superhero, I guess."

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 10th 2021 at 3:06:23 AM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#128023: May 10th 2021 at 3:08:15 PM

Peter's stupid fast, so he doesn't really need armour plating most of the time.

He's also tank some pretty heavy shots at times too.

So he doesn't really need armour. That's not to say he's never been shot (the old Ultimate Spiderman comic book had one notable moment of it, but that version of Peter was a lot worse at his job).

One Strip! One Strip!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#128024: May 10th 2021 at 3:12:46 PM

Honestly if their still keeping it this much of a secret. I wonder if their supposed to secretly be one of widow's team. As otherwise it seems weird to keepit secret this long.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#128025: May 10th 2021 at 3:24:42 PM

Sometimes superheroes getting armored tends to make them look more militarized. Some do need the protection, but it feels odd to see Spider-Man in quasi-military gear when he's fighting lizards and bank robbers. On the whole, superheroes have gotten more militarized in media and IMO it feels uneasy, like a gradual normalization trend. Batman is a detective; he doesn't always have to be a SEAL.


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