TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127951: May 10th 2021 at 1:43:27 AM

Killian isn't great shakes and pales compared to Fake Mandarin when he's putting on the biz but I think he's got enough charisma of his own with cool enough powers that he's not the worst marvel offering.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#127952: May 10th 2021 at 1:44:14 AM

The underlying metaphor of the film is also wonky as shit to me. Mandarin is obviously a stand-in for Bin Laden/Gaddafi "middle eastern terror" stereotypes and how they're used by ruthless industrialists to fuel the US war-machine, but here's the thing: Bin Laden and Gaddafi very much existed and very much were horrible genocidal madmen. To suggest they were literal paid actors for BIG OIL (TM) is basically to engage in 9/11 trutherism, which is what the metaphor used in the film suggests (intentionally or not).

I don't think reading Killian as a stand in for BIG OIL (TM) in a 9/11 truther scenario works.

That conspiracy is all about how the 9/11 attacks were supposedly a false flag operation, done to make Americans gung-ho about invading the Middle East, 'cause oil execs wanted at their sweet, sweet crude. But Killian didn't set out to fake a terrorist attack, nor did he stand to gain anything from the U.S. invading ... wherever it is they thought the Mandarin lived.

Until the assault on Tony's house, everyone killed by "the Mandarin" actually died of accidental causes. And when Killian places the blame on a fictional terrorist, he doesn't particularly care whether that mobilizes the U.S. military or not, just so long as it distracts them from investigating his shoddy merchandise.

Killian isn't BIG OIL or some other arm of the military-industrial complex. He's an auto manufacturer who rushes new vehicles onto the market without working out their safety features, but who, even as car crash fatalities mount up daily, never receives a fraction of the notoriety or scrutiny as some foreign sounding guy who likes to rant about destroying America.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127953: May 10th 2021 at 1:53:11 AM

[up][up] His appearance is awful though.

He's just a white guy, dude has absolutely no style.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127954: May 10th 2021 at 2:16:02 AM

He needed to go full anime

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#127955: May 10th 2021 at 2:37:25 AM

Hey, at least Malekith had style. And something of a 'Larger than life threat' feeling.

Aldrich was just bland, petty and outright cringy.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#127956: May 10th 2021 at 2:43:10 AM

Killian occasionally hammed it up, which is more than we got from Malekith (or Kaecilius for that matter).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127957: May 10th 2021 at 2:45:12 AM

His appearance is what kills it for me.

Like I honestly would be less harsh on him if he had like a super-suit or monster form. He's just a normal guy and that is horrendously boring.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127958: May 10th 2021 at 2:47:11 AM

At least Obadiah got into a Mini-Mecha to take on Tony. One that was actually pretty true to the Iron Monger suit from the original comics.

Edited by M84 on May 10th 2021 at 5:47:55 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#127959: May 10th 2021 at 2:48:06 AM

A normal guy, but ON FIRE! That's totally special tongue

Also, hamming up per se isn't something positive, in my humble opinion. The actor has to make it work.

And Killian's "I AM THE MANDARIN!" just felt cringy to me.

[up] Oh Obadiah holds up pretty well. He was a good Starter Villain for the MCU.

Edited by Forenperser on May 10th 2021 at 11:48:49 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127960: May 10th 2021 at 2:52:39 AM

Huh now that I think about it, we never did escalate that far from Stane did we?

Iron Man 1 started with Tony facing off against a corrupt corporate executive and 3 ends with him facing off against another corrupt corporate executive.

Only Vanko somewhat breaks it but only somewhat since he still allies with another corrupt corporate executive.

Edited by slimcoder on May 10th 2021 at 2:53:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127961: May 10th 2021 at 2:55:24 AM

What does escalate is the collateral damage in the movies.

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127962: May 10th 2021 at 2:55:46 AM

From Tobias, for example, whose interpretation of Killian is better than what the film is actually saying but requires one to ignore the text, like Killian going out of his way to flirt and kidnap Pepper Potts for no actual reason other than to antagonize Stark (in another direct quote of his to Pepper: "Having you here is not just to motivate Tony Stark. It's... well, it's actually more embarrassing than that. You're here as my Trophy."), something made clearer in the original script where Shane Black claims Killian would essentially rape Pepper on national television to get under Stark's skin.
The worst part is that from what I recall of an interview about this scene, they didn’t even seem aware that it was rape.

He's just a white guy, dude has absolutely no style.

Questionable.

I'd say that Stane is a pretty boring antagonist on paper, much more so than Killian, and is only memorable because of Jeff Bridges's performance and his film being less controversial.

Edited by windleopard on May 10th 2021 at 2:56:28 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127963: May 10th 2021 at 2:58:21 AM

That right there, that image showcases how completely lacking in appearance he is.

No style, no memorability, no nothing. There is nothing you can describe this guy as.

Stane gets a pass cause he's the first guy but this is Iron Man 3, plus all the multiple prior movies already. There is no excuse for Killian to look so profoundly uninteresting.

Edited by slimcoder on May 10th 2021 at 3:00:19 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127964: May 10th 2021 at 3:11:21 AM

And as I mentioned, even Stane got into the intimidating Iron Monger suit when it came time to actually throw down with Tony.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#127965: May 10th 2021 at 3:12:56 AM

Killian is boring and bland, but I have more hatred for Malekith purely because of what an utter waste of Christopher Eccleston he was. He's a great actor and he was stuck with this absolute Nothing of a character... the disgrace of it all...

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127966: May 10th 2021 at 3:13:27 AM

The irony is that comics Malekith is...well, he's not a bland character.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127967: May 10th 2021 at 3:15:14 AM

He's kinda like the Thor version of Joker.

And yes he does get ungodly infuriating. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127968: May 10th 2021 at 3:19:24 AM

So our options are either a boring villain or an annoying invincible villain like the Joker?

Honestly, I think it was better they went with option 1. Thor already has Loki overshadowing him in the first two movies.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127969: May 10th 2021 at 3:21:55 AM

Malekith's basically a take on The Fair Folk.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127970: May 10th 2021 at 3:25:35 AM

[up][up] Oh yeah he was effectively the primary villain of Jason Aaron's Thor run.

But he was only actually dealt with in War of the Realms event at the 7th year of Aaron's run, where previously he effectively ran rough shed on everyone, accomplishing all his plans and building his evil army with little struggle.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#127971: May 10th 2021 at 3:34:16 AM

I.....don't think 'boring' or 'invincible' is our dual choice here?

Just take a look at Cottonmouth from Luke Cage Season 1. He not invincible or boring.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#127972: May 10th 2021 at 4:01:06 AM

The Abomination is the worst villain. Dude's just an ugly CGI thing that wants to punch stuff harder.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#127973: May 10th 2021 at 4:24:51 AM

I've not read many comics with Malekith as a villain but the few that I have read did show him to be really cool, IMO.

Then again, wasn't part of the reason they changed Malekith's personality in the MCU because they were worried he'd be too similar to Loki? Not sure how they figured that—he didn't seem that much like Loki in the comics I saw—but that's what I remember reading somewhere.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127974: May 10th 2021 at 4:27:16 AM

He's basically a batshit laughably mad kinda guy, so I'm not sure what about him they see as too similar to Loki here.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#127975: May 10th 2021 at 4:35:15 AM

"... this Dark Elf, Malekith, wakes up from hypersleep."

"Oh, what's his deal?"

"Well, there's this Convergence thing happening where all the Nine Realms align so he wants to use the Aether to plunge them all into darkness."

"Why?"

"Because he's evil."

"Why is he evil?"

"He's not very nice."

"How come, though?"

"He's the bad guy."

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Total posts: 186,763
Top