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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127901: May 9th 2021 at 2:06:07 PM

Yeah its less that the twist is bad so much as killian himself sucks which makes it seem worse in contrast when we could have had a badass and intimidating villain instead we got that....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127902: May 9th 2021 at 2:07:03 PM

Man I feel bad for Simu, he looks pretty damn handsome.

Also yes the Chinese citizens really hate the pandering to the CCP, they can see the bullshit. I remember when Transformers 5 had characters in Texas use a Chinese website to check out cars and they called bullshit on that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#127903: May 9th 2021 at 2:07:27 PM

> Killian breathes fire at Rhodey.

see now I'm picturing Killian turning into a dragon which would have made for a better twist

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127904: May 9th 2021 at 2:11:01 PM

[up][up]Its a Values Dissonance thing for simu btw. Simu's Hunk and "manly" features are well liked for western tastes of beauty. In contrast, east asian countries prefer Pretty Boy type looks.

Edited by miraculous on May 9th 2021 at 2:11:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127905: May 9th 2021 at 2:17:52 PM

Oh yeah they do love bishies.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#127906: May 9th 2021 at 2:35:41 PM

The bishier the better.

Why do you think there are so many males in anime who could (and can if it's a cross dressing episode) easily pass themselves off as women?

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#127907: May 9th 2021 at 2:41:44 PM

Count me in on "The Mandarin twist itself was executed perfectly, it's just Killian is a disappointing follow-up."

At least the final fight with him is one of the better action setpieces. Suit of metal armor vs. guy who can cut through metal with glowing hot hands is a pretty interesting match-up.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#127908: May 9th 2021 at 2:52:13 PM

Also,powered up pepper pots

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127909: May 9th 2021 at 2:55:36 PM

My main complaint about that final battle is how much it used Convection, Schmonvection, with Tony not even being phased about the armor he's wearing being glowing hot every time Killian chops a limb off.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127910: May 9th 2021 at 4:34:28 PM

I wonder if there are any Marvel hero leads that aren't conventionally attractive (besides the obvious Rocket and Groot).

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127911: May 9th 2021 at 4:36:54 PM

Well there’s Deadpool though that varies depending on how serious his scarring is.

And Wolverine is supposed to be a big hairy meatball in human form.

Edited by slimcoder on May 9th 2021 at 4:37:13 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#127912: May 9th 2021 at 4:38:38 PM

Chinese American, guilty as charged. Growing up, Tony Leung was seen as a real Adonis among the women in my family, along with folks like Andy Lau and Leon Lai. Meanwhile Simu Liu would still be considered a Mr. Fanservice, but more in the "hey, my face is up here!" sense, as his face, while not unattractive, doesn't really line up with the beauty standards Chinese culture is used to. That said my tastes in men have evolved with time so I do appreciate Hunkier and more brawny facial shapes too.

[up][up] There's Doctor Strange. Can't speak for others but Benedict Cumberbatch does not align with any beauty standards I'm aware of.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 9th 2021 at 7:40:15 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127913: May 9th 2021 at 4:43:40 PM

I mean, if they're aware of it, the fact that Shang-Chi's dad is seen as hotter than he is could be used for a pretty good joke, and the entire thing seems to be that the Mandarin is disappointed in his son for not living up to his potential.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127914: May 9th 2021 at 4:44:54 PM

Baggypants Cabbagepatch was voted “World's Sexiest Actor" in 2013 by 50000 Empire Magazine voters, so there’s a fan base. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 9th 2021 at 4:45:13 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#127915: May 9th 2021 at 4:46:51 PM

Fan girls to be precise,I've always suspected being an attractive high profile celebrity was what got him the role of Doctor Strange

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#127916: May 9th 2021 at 4:47:38 PM

[up]How dare you ignore the presence of boys liking how he looks, too.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127917: May 9th 2021 at 4:48:34 PM

Amusingly despite Deadpool looking like a rotting corpse, he has engaged in long term sexual relationships with Copycat, Siryn, Outlaw, Shiklah (though she’s a succubus and Queen of the monsters so Wade’s appearance is basically normal for her), and most recently Elsa Bloodstone.

And of course he’s also fathered a child.

Edited by slimcoder on May 9th 2021 at 4:49:32 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127918: May 9th 2021 at 4:49:53 PM

I will defend the Mandarin twist to the death, I straight-up hate how it's treated by the wider fanbase as this Never Live It Down So Bad, It's Horrible mistake, but I'll also concede that Killian's not exactly the best villain. I ultimately liked him but I think that comes down more to Guy Pearce carrying the role than anything else.

Also I honestly feel super-bad for Simu because he's clearly taking the comments in stride and meanwhile I'm just like maaaaaaan you're all fine dude.

Edited by Watchtower on May 9th 2021 at 7:54:53 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#127919: May 9th 2021 at 5:10:48 PM

I think the Mandarin twist unto itself has problems of its own. One is that Ben Kingsley is just too good at it so there's a Springtime for Hitler thing going on with the sheer charisma and gravitas Kingsley (or rather, "Trevor Slattery") brings to the character. Fake Mandarin's observation about how the united states military wiped out native tribes to claim their land (more specifically referring to the Sand Creek Massacre) so his terrorist acts are really just kind of a sociological Pay Evil unto Evil is a more striking philosophical point than anything Killian, Hammer or Vanko say. In general, Mandarin ends up accidentally bringing up a bunch of good points about how the US is a colonialist, warmongering empire built on genocide and the distaste for what the Mandarin does can feel like the pot calling the keetle black.

This is something that could have been interestingly elaborated on, really. All three movies end up lightly touching on the US military-industrial complex but neither really swings at it and a more genuine Mandarin could have been a opportunity for it. There's also something to be said about how minorities are rarely allowed to be the Magnificent Bastard mastermind, they always suffer a Race Lift or get a white The Man Behind the Man type to hijack them, which was a discussion that happened a lot at the time (Khan in Star Trek, Raza and Mandarin both in the IM franchise, Vaas Montenegro in Far Cry 3, e.t.c).

Instead, in the film proper, President Ellis is a good, righteous man and so is the military. It's Big Oil (TM) alone that has harnessed the powers of evil for their bidding, by way of a awfully ableist concept of a entire evil organization of disabled people who became unshackled hellhounds the moment they were offered their limbs back by way of a Psycho Serum.

The underlying metaphor of the film is also wonky as shit to me. Mandarin is obviously a stand-in for Bin Laden/Gaddafi "middle eastern terror" stereotypes and how they're used by ruthless industrialists to fuel the US war-machine, but here's the thing: Bin Laden and Gaddafi very much existed and very much were horrible genocidal madmen. To suggest they were literal paid actors for BIG OIL (TM) is basically to engage in 9/11 trutherism, which is what the metaphor used in the film suggests (intentionally or not).

The first film, oddly, made the exact same metaphor but without running into 9/11 trutherisms, with Obadiah Stane collaborating with Raza, but Raza having his own plans and being very much an actual person rather than a hired actor or somesuch. Stane (the "US industrialist stand-in" of movie 1) is just the much bigger threat and usurps Raza as the main villain, but the point was somewhat made that the US military-industrial complex and foreign despots have a symbiotic relationship, not that one literally invented the other out of whole cloth. To suggest so is to act like the US is the only place in the world that exists.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#127920: May 9th 2021 at 5:13:43 PM

I think the idea is for the president to "learn" from the mistakes of the past much like Tony overcoming his own flaws personified .

Just Makima.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#127921: May 9th 2021 at 5:14:08 PM

Deadpool might not be attractive in the traditional sense of the word, but that hasn't stopped him from gaining his own dedicated group of fangirls and guys. Just look at how popular Spideypool is with fangirls for example. I feel like that might just be do to his personality making him stand out, but I could be wrong.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#127922: May 9th 2021 at 5:23:00 PM

I've seen women with an attraction to so-called "Objectheads", who knows. It's not a strictly linear thing.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127924: May 9th 2021 at 5:26:16 PM

Actually now that I think about it, I can’t really think of any scarred female heroes.

Deadpool and Spawn are among the most famous cases, each having immense disfigurations (Deadpool’s cancer scars and Spawn’s burn scars), and these 2’s costumes are full-covering ensembles with cool masks.

I can’t really think of female heroes like the 2.

[up][up] What are those?

Edited by slimcoder on May 9th 2021 at 5:29:13 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127925: May 9th 2021 at 5:27:13 PM

[up][up]He is ripped though.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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