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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#127526: May 3rd 2021 at 12:34:34 PM

Wrong guy. Loeb was the TV department. Think the one who vetoed a female villain was Perlmutter.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#127527: May 3rd 2021 at 12:36:19 PM

In this case the director was also one of two screenwriters, so yes Shane Black was involved.

The script was one way, then they got a memo from higher up, so Black and his co-writer Derek Pearce changed it to another way.

Rebecca Hall, who played Hall, has said that her role was originally larger, if not actually the villain, and then was substantially reduced.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#127528: May 3rd 2021 at 12:40:26 PM

I don't know, I wasn't super-upset about any of the alleged "fakeouts" in Wandavision (except the Boehner joke, which is unfunny as all get out), but I don't necessarily think people were wrong to expect more out of it, even if they shouldn't let it ruin the show for them. When it comes down to it, Wandavision's reception was kind of hit with the combined problem of being the inaugural Phase Four installment/Disney+ Marvel series, being an inherently more out there show than something like Falcon/Winter Soldier or Hawkeye, AND comments (joking and otherwise) from people connected to these projects feeding the fire. Sort of a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances there.

Edited by Khfan429 on May 3rd 2021 at 12:41:38 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127529: May 3rd 2021 at 12:44:43 PM

Huh very curious about The Marvels.

Stars Carol, Monica, and Kamala. Sure Kamala is pretty low on the totem pole power wise but Monica is potentially as massively strong as Carol so wonder what immense threat is gonna combat them.

Then as mentioned the film possibly introducing the children of Mar-Vell. 2 kids in particular, Hulkling and Phyla-Vella are not only members of the Young’s Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy each, but also among Marcel’s most high-profile gay characters.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the film introduced the 2.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#127530: May 3rd 2021 at 12:45:05 PM

And to make the whole situation even dumber, Pearlmutter's justification was that a female villain wouldn't sell toys.

And then they didn't even make all that much Killian merchandise despite the fact that he was nominally the villain specifically to boost merchandise sales.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127531: May 3rd 2021 at 12:48:00 PM

[up][up]Also there's the fact that Wiccan's been introduced already so there's hope for their romance to be eventually adapted into the big screen. Would be pretty great if they did and a good chance for Marvel

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127532: May 3rd 2021 at 12:54:52 PM

[up] It’s why I’m also hoping Guardians 3 introduced Drax’s daughter Moondragon who is Phyla’s wife.

Not only would it be cool to have those 2 onboard but it would possibly give Drax something major to do there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127533: May 3rd 2021 at 12:56:19 PM

I feel like 3 should be Drax’s time to shine, yeah.

The legend has returned.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127534: May 3rd 2021 at 1:04:09 PM

If you didn't like the Bohner joke that's fine but at the end of the day anyone pissed that he isn't actually Fox Quicksilver only has themselves to blame. It's not even a Shocking Swerve because the weirdness of "recasting Pietro" was established from minute 1 and not once does the show ever actually even mention multiverse shenanigans. You wanna try to Metagame it that's fine but if you're wrong that's on you. The only thing the show owes people is a good story that's worth their time.

I mean, shit, the Bohner twist has less stakes than even the Mandarin twist, because at least that one potentially risked writing Mandarin out of the MCU canon. By any multiversal logic the Fox Quicksilver still exists.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127535: May 3rd 2021 at 1:09:52 PM

I would not have a problem if Rocket got demoted into just being the funny guy team helper guy since he’s already gotten so much prominence. Plus being perfectly helpful and not sabotaging would be a perfect showcase of his character development.

We know Guardians 3 will have a plot over Quill and Nebula finding Gamora who is somehow connected to the thing about Adam Warlock (especially since Adam was her original romantic interest king before either Nova or Star-Lord.)

So I hope it also has something for Drax where he discovers that his family still alive through Moondragon with Phyla as his new daughter-in-law. Reminds me of one of my favorite parts of the Dn A run where Phyla was the only person who could really talk to an increasingly secluding Drax, showcasing that he cares for the lover of his daughter with the same strength as his own daughter.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#127536: May 3rd 2021 at 1:10:45 PM

[up][up]See, that's where I have to disagree and point out Marvel kind of shot themselves in the foot on that front, because I don't agree that expecting the multiverse was out of left field (though again, not troubled by its absence and I think anyone who lets that ruin the show for them is in the wrong).

When one of the earliest things officially announced about phase four is that Wanda would be in the Doctor Strange sequel titled Multiverse of Madness, you have to expect if you go for that casting gag in her own show that everybody who follows your official press conferences and what not is going to at least consider that that's what you're doing.

Edited by Khfan429 on May 3rd 2021 at 1:11:35 AM

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#127537: May 3rd 2021 at 1:14:47 PM

[up] This. I don't think a basic and slight indignation over the misdirect is out of order in any way.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127538: May 3rd 2021 at 1:17:28 PM

It’s a shame the pandemic caused them to cut out the actual planned resolution & just resort to a boner joke to end it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127539: May 3rd 2021 at 1:22:37 PM

I don't even think Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is going to involve the actual multiverse. We know the main villain is Nightmare from the Dream Dimension, so I think it's just going to cover the other dimensions within the MCU universe, not go into any parallel universes.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127540: May 3rd 2021 at 1:34:16 PM

There’s a certain heroine involved whose signature power is multiverse travel, so Strange and co. will likely be going to several different places.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127541: May 3rd 2021 at 1:39:17 PM

Maybe I'm too plugged into certain areas but I saw too many people flipping out to call the backlash basic or slight. Most likely is just a Vocal Minority but man was it loudly angry.

Shit the fact that the Mandarin twist is treated as one of the great fuck-ups in blockbuster writing because people are still salty about it nearly 10 years later is extreme in itself. And I don't like what that says of people who treat "good writing" as that which gives you exactly what you want and nothing less or more.

Edited by Watchtower on May 3rd 2021 at 4:39:38 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127542: May 3rd 2021 at 1:42:38 PM

In fairness Killian is an unforgivably awful villain.

He is the greatest shame in all of Marvel.

Edited by slimcoder on May 3rd 2021 at 1:42:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127543: May 3rd 2021 at 1:44:15 PM

I probably would have pegged Malekith as the worst but honestly, yeah, the Mandarin as presented in the beginning parts was much more enjoyable than his Syndrome wannabe ass.

The legend has returned.
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127544: May 3rd 2021 at 1:44:25 PM

Yeah, he's like a knockoff Syndrome without any of the charm or things that made Syndrome good.

He's just a bad cookie-cutter villain without much to stand out, hell I remember more how Pepper killed him than anything else, LMAO. Even Trevor Slattery left a bigger impact and was more memorable

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127545: May 3rd 2021 at 1:47:04 PM

At least Malekith has a decently cool look.

Killian is just some white guy with a dragon back tattoo for some ungodly reason. Your not a fucking yakuza dude.

Edited by slimcoder on May 3rd 2021 at 1:47:11 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#127546: May 3rd 2021 at 1:47:09 PM

Killian at least has a neat powerset and gives us a flashy final battle, even if he has all the personality of a wooden plank.

Malekith doesn't even have that.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127547: May 3rd 2021 at 1:50:46 PM

Killian got to karate chop iron man armor

Malekith got his limbs teleported off and a spaceship dropped on him

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127548: May 3rd 2021 at 2:00:50 PM

Killian beign a cookei cutter white guy villain is even made worse by Alexander Pierce's existance who doesn't even needs powers to stand out more than Killian did

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127549: May 3rd 2021 at 2:16:40 PM

When one of the earliest things officially announced about phase four is that Wanda would be in the Doctor Strange sequel titled Multiverse of Madness, you have to expect if you go for that casting gag in her own show that everybody who follows your official press conferences and what not is going to at least consider that that's what you're doing.

The thing about that is, even if Dr. Strange is legitimately going to introduce an alternate universe depiction of The Multiverse (which is up in the air, as said it's pretty likely that they used multiverse to refer to dimensions because it sounded cooler), at the end of the day Wandavision is not Dr. Strange: Multiverse of Madness. It's Wandavision.

That's kind of the big problem that causes me to agree with the idea that the theorists were setting themselves up - they were expecting Wandavision to be Dr. Strange 0.5, instead of a show about Wanda. Then turned out to be strictly show about Wanda, the big introduction turned out to be the concept of Chaos Magic and witches (a thing about Wanda) and people were pissed that it wasn't Dr. Strange 0.5, or X.Men 0.5, or about something different than the character study it as always about.

But it was never under any obligation to be. That's on the people who had those unreasonable expectations.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2021 at 2:22:28 AM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#127550: May 3rd 2021 at 2:27:01 PM

I'm gonna go against the grain and say Marvel's own fault that people were disappointed with how they handled Quicksilver. Yeah, some people would have been assuming it was going to do something with the multiverse regardless, but when they revealed Evan Peters was going to be in it, I can't blame anyone for assuming it'd be as Fox Quicksilver. It was a bad time and place for using one of the Fox X-Men as a Casting Gag, with all the theories going around about the multiverse and X-Men being introduced to the MCU.

Also, Malekith was my least favorite MCU villain. At least Killian had somewhat interesting powers. Malekith just feels like a generic fantasy villain, I remember nothing about him except that he wants to cast the universe in darkness, and I only remember that because it's almost comically cliched.

Edited by FGHIK on May 3rd 2021 at 4:27:30 AM


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