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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127501: May 3rd 2021 at 10:19:09 AM

What bugs the shit out of me isn't the multiverse concept itself, it's how it's used by a certain Vocal Minority of fans. It's not just having a multiverse, it's using it to pitch Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 starring Tobey Maguire or to backdoor the Fox X-Men into canon so that Evan Peters can cross over as Quicksilver.

It's really sour, borderline toxic fan discussion and speculation to the point where I sorta dread Marvel deciding to placate that side of the fandom. Especially with all the Bohner noise, like you'd think people have never heard of Red Herrings before or something.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127502: May 3rd 2021 at 10:20:03 AM

All I recall Jamie Foxx saying is that he wouldn't be blue this time, which granted is a strike against this being ASM2 Electro.

Edited by lbssb on May 3rd 2021 at 10:20:36 AM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127503: May 3rd 2021 at 10:20:45 AM

How are those same people going to react when all the news we've heard about Spider-Man is just a Casting Gag with no connection to the multiverse, and Dr. Strange is just all about exploring different dimensions within the current MCU, such as the Dream Dimension? They're gonna go absolutely apeshit, they're gonna lose their minds.

Yeah, I've been worried about this. Mostly because as a Star Wars fan, I've seen the worst case scenario of how the backlash of this can be.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127504: May 3rd 2021 at 10:28:35 AM

It's not just having a multiverse, it's using it to pitch Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 starring Tobey Maguire or to backdoor the Fox X-Men into canon so that Evan Peters can cross over as Quicksilver.

It's a bit convoluted IMO...

Whether it means that he's literally going to be snatched from the Raimi universe or whether the MCU is just going to retell that story is something he never made clear, he made comments that could support either, and iirc he didn't really seem to know or care about the difference.

I mean, from what I skimmed from Molina's interview, it heavily sounds like he's Raimi!Doc Ock? If I'm honest, as legendary as Molina might've been (never got around to watching Raimi's Spider-Man 2), I kinda would've preferred a fully rebooted Ock? Like, new actor and everything? I remember Mark Hamill liked a tweet suggesting he be MCU!Ock, so he could've been a good place to start.

I still wonder how Deadpool will squeeze his way into the MCU... I'm banking on him getting tangled up with the TVA, but...

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127505: May 3rd 2021 at 10:30:25 AM

All Deadpool needs to do is just show up via Rule of Funny. No one's really gonna question it.

Edited by lbssb on May 3rd 2021 at 10:32:43 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127506: May 3rd 2021 at 11:01:31 AM

People are so impatient to see the X-Men in the MCU, it feels like they're expecting every new MCU project to completely derail its own plot to introduce the multiverse and Wolverine.

Frankly, I've had enough X-Men. I don't want to see any mutants at all until I watch the first movie or tv show 100% about them. The Fox property I want to see most is Fantastic 4, and I still don't want to see hide nor hair about them until they're directly teasing the F4 movie.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#127507: May 3rd 2021 at 11:13:27 AM

Though, when they cast the guy who played Fox Quicksilver in Wandavision, they were sorta inviting that.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127508: May 3rd 2021 at 11:14:19 AM

That was a full on Troll move. Lol

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127509: May 3rd 2021 at 11:15:24 AM

Like I said, what if everything we've heard about No Way Home is just a Casting Gag like that?

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#127510: May 3rd 2021 at 11:38:04 AM

I think they played with fire with Fauxsilver. If they want Multiverse to work they CAN'T do that crap again.

Just Makima.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127511: May 3rd 2021 at 11:49:57 AM

They probably can

The backlash was a minority of the audience

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VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127512: May 3rd 2021 at 11:54:43 AM

Then again, the fakeout isn't likely to make any impact if done a second time in a row in the same year. And considering how badly received the Mandarin fakeout actually was...

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127513: May 3rd 2021 at 11:56:37 AM

How badly WAS it received among mainstream audiences?

Iron Man 3 made over a billion dollars and has a 79% on the tomatoes

What bothers the nerdy niche doesn’t faze everyone

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VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127514: May 3rd 2021 at 11:59:29 AM

Bad enough that a short was released shortly after that shows there's a real Mandarin?

It also wasn't helped by the fact that it was practically a last minute rewrite that reduced Tony's entire clash with the Ten Rings to a one-sided grudge from a guy he ignored at the party.

Yeah... Not badly received, people loved that twist enough that no Author's Saving Throw was made after.

And films aren't black and white pieces that get torn down for one mistake. A film can be good and still have a plot point/twist bashed and ridiculed

Problem here is that you think = "Badly Received Plot Twist = Bad, Bad Flop" which is hilariously wrong. You treat criticism of anything as an absolute that sinks films forever all the time for that one mistake when that rarely happens at all.

Edited by VengefulBale on May 3rd 2021 at 2:03:26 PM

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127515: May 3rd 2021 at 12:00:07 PM

It bothered enough that Marvel retconned the Mandarin’s identity the following year and now are re-adapting him in Shang-Chi.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#127516: May 3rd 2021 at 12:04:13 PM

It wasn't impacting on the film's performance but Marvel sustains itself by a strong word-of-mouth online response and fandom. The way to cultivate that is keeping a watchful eye on Online discourse and at least consider readjusting things to address (not solve it, mind you, but address it) it if it gets big enough, which they do. The Mandarin twist didn't damage the film's performance but it was pretty big in Online discourse, so Marvel was just clever about it and opened a backdoor.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#127517: May 3rd 2021 at 12:04:47 PM

[up][up]Of course, now there’s a vocal minority(?) among the Chinese audience complaining about the Mandarin being an offensive Yellow Peril character.

No matter what you do, sometimes you can’t win.

Edited by NTG on May 3rd 2021 at 12:05:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127518: May 3rd 2021 at 12:16:19 PM

There was nothing wrong with how Quicksilver was handled in Wandavision. They literally say right after he shows up "she re-cast Pietro?". It's very clear that Wanda took some random man, brainwashed him to think he's Pietro, and gave him superspeed. It's only later we learn that Agatha was actually responsible for that, and it is NEVER suggested even once that he's actually the Fox-Men Quicksilver taken from another universe.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127519: May 3rd 2021 at 12:17:45 PM

I have only slight gripes with it, but honestly unlike the Mandarin it was actually planned from the start so it's got a lot more points in its favor than that one

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127520: May 3rd 2021 at 12:18:43 PM

[up][up] Agreed. While the name joke was groanworthy, the backlash was more fans setting themselves up than Marvel dropping the ball on what was ultimately a pretty good Casting Gag.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2021 at 12:18:51 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127521: May 3rd 2021 at 12:19:51 PM

[up][up]I thought the Mandarin being a fake-out WAS planned from the start? It was only who the true villain was that changed later on, since the true villain was originally going to be that scientist woman before it became Killian.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 3rd 2021 at 12:20:08 PM

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127522: May 3rd 2021 at 12:21:41 PM

[up] Iron Man 3 had a different director from the one in the first and second film film. Not at all "planned" when there's an entirely different guy in the director's seat. It was planned since IM 3 changed directors, but overall in the MCU it definitely wasn't

Edited by VengefulBale on May 3rd 2021 at 2:22:05 PM

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127523: May 3rd 2021 at 12:25:05 PM

Well that’s the difference planning for a series and planning for a movie

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127524: May 3rd 2021 at 12:29:07 PM

Directors don't typically make huge story decisions like that, not unless they're also a producer. Major re-writes like you're suggesting happened are the duty of Producers and the Writers, and all we've heard of IM3 was that she was originally going to be the true Big Bad until Jeph Loeb vetoed having a female main villain.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 3rd 2021 at 12:30:19 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127525: May 3rd 2021 at 12:31:31 PM

LOOOOOOOEEEEEB

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