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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#125651: Feb 28th 2021 at 6:42:47 AM

It's hard to describe, really. There are tons of issues with it. First of all, for an event called "Age of Ultron", the titular villain is barely in it.

Instead, it devolves into an absolutely confusing mess of a storyline of Time Travel, alternate timelines, magic and what not.

Also, the setting is barely explained at all. It just starts with the world in ruins and that's it. And the main characters are basically Wolverine (as if the world hasn't seen enough of him already) and Sue Storm, who have no real chemistry with each other whatsoever.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125652: Feb 28th 2021 at 6:43:32 AM

It’s just Days of Future Past but longer and worse

Anyway I think with MCU Ultron it would have been interesting to play with the idea that he’s Bruce plus Tony. (Plus Thanos, idk, shhh)

Ultron: Always Angry

[up] Fun fact: Age of Ultron the comical book is one of the things that makes me hate the hard man hard choices Avengers need someone willing to kill so Wolverine idea

He’s not willing to kill. He’s eager to jump to it as the first solution. The Avengers don’t need that or him

Edited by Bocaj on Feb 28th 2021 at 9:45:52 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125653: Feb 28th 2021 at 9:05:26 AM

And the fact that many writers treat Logan as a “kill first, ask questions never” kind of guy is something of a disservice to him.

Will he kill in the heat of battle? Yeah.

Will he kill in self defence? Yeah.

But he hates how he’s willing to kill, but thinks he’s already got too much blood on his claws, so he does it so others won’t need to.

Logan, like a lot of other characters, gets flanderized into Stabbity Man Killer-meister.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#125654: Feb 28th 2021 at 9:13:50 AM

Logan is at his best when he's babysitting some super-kids and one of them asks him a surprisingly dark and poignant question that he answers in a mature and serious way.

One of my favorite X-Men related books was a short kid's novel about a mutant at Xavier's school who has the ability to not be noticed. Your senses just automatically gloss over him like he's not even there. He forms a friendship with Wolverine because Logan is the only person he can have a normal conversation with because of his super-senses. Turns out Logan goes to the kitchen every night to have a glass of strawberry milk. The climax is a tense and bloody battle between Wolverine and Sabertooth, who is also able to track our protagonist. It ends with the kid learning that his power doesn't affect people as much if he's having a conversation with them, which is super hamfisted, but the novel as a whole is pretty cute and well-written.

Hey, I can't believe that I finally found that kid's novel, it's called Wolverine: Worst Day Ever. I thought I was imagining it for a second there. It's a good read, obviously a kid's book, but a good kid's book, with some wholesome depth and a bit of edge in the fight at the end.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Feb 28th 2021 at 10:45:56 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125655: Mar 1st 2021 at 10:55:23 AM

So, less Marvel related and more Golden Globe related, but...

Chadwick Boseman is the first black actor to posthumously win the Golden Globe for Best Actor for his role in Ma Rainey's Black Bottom.

And after reading his widow's speech, I don't think I want a recasted T'Challa after all. Yeah, it hurts to say and it's gonna hurt future Black Panther endeavors in the MCU in the long run, but unless something happens, Chadwick is just too great to replace.

And on the same spectrum, Chloé Zhao is the first Asian woman to win Best Director for Nomadland and now I really want to see Eternals. (Where's the trailer?!)

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#125656: Mar 1st 2021 at 2:13:53 PM

Meh, regardless of how great Boseman was in the role, I still rather have them recast T'Challa. The character was just getting started.

Absolutely hate The Character Died with Him.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125657: Mar 1st 2021 at 3:39:30 PM

I almost want them to find a way to get M'Baku into Falcon and Winter Soldier, just because of this:

evil grinevil grinevil grin

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#125659: Mar 1st 2021 at 3:50:25 PM

I'd rather let Boseman's legacy be respected by other in-universe characters taking up the mantle of Black Panther or becoming the new main hero.

It could be Shuri or M'Baku. Could be Nakia... All in all, this case of The Character Died with Him is very, very respectful. I am honestly not a fan of recasts myself and I feel like either letting the characters leave the franchise or give them a dignified death is better than super-imposing another actor into their roles.

Boseman's performance was unique, there's no need to try and have someone else fill in his shoes

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125660: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:07:45 PM

I hate the idea of not seeing T'Chala's story continue, but I can get why they'd do it, for some of the reasons already stated, but also because whoever follows him might get crushed by weight of Boseman's legacy.

Having to follow up his performance would be a lot of pressure to put on someone.

Will I miss T'Chala? Hell yes. But even if they were to consider re-casting, it won't be for many years. I can picture a good decade passing, or maybe even a new Marvel Universe movie series before we see a new Black Panther.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125661: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:08:41 PM

I still see refusing to recast as significantly less of a respectful move than it appears on the surface.

To be fair, it’s the kind of thing that’s respectful specifically from a Hollywood point of vie, which is why I’m not surprised they did it. Boseman was a great actor, and so as it goes for actors, retiring the character he is most identified with is respectful from the perspective of honoring his career.

But in terms of who Boseman was as a person and what he was endeavoring to do in portraying T’Challa (and other prominent black characters and people) in the first place, removing the character he was intent on bring to people because he is no longer around to do so himself is rather tone deaf.

Yes, there are other characters who can be moved into the role, but that's irrelevant to the problem that is raised by removing T'Challa in the way that they did. The entire point of making movies like Black Panther is to combat the idea that African American characters are expendable or disposable. We shouldn’t have to only get Shuri as BP because T’Challa needs to be replaced, nor is pushing the idea that there must be one or the other good for anybody - it only gives weight to the idea that there can only be limited space for African American representation and we have to make do with one or another.

We should be able to have both, but we can’t because Marvel has decided that T’Challa can no longer exist. In a time where Marvel should have been expanding the mythos and influence of the Black Panther brand, Marvel has chosen to make it that much smaller. Which strikes me as the opposite of what Boseman would want.

As a result, as a respect move it comes off as superficial IMO. They absolutely should have recast him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 1st 2021 at 4:22:55 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125662: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:12:56 PM

Pure hypothetical, but if they ever do multiverse stuff, they could bring in an alternate universe T'Challa played by a different actor.

Not saying they should do that, its just a thought.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125663: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:17:50 PM

I was initially anti-recast, but the more I've thought about it the more I'm more leaning towards recasting being the better long-term option. The problem would then be who do you hire to match Boseman's performance.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125664: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:24:41 PM

[up][up][up] ...Is it wrong that I find your points hard to argue? Because those are some awfully good points.

[up][up] ...I don't know if it's an ideal move, either. But in a timeline where the universe insists we continue T'Challa's saga, then maybe? I mean, it's an easy-sounding fix on paper. But even then, how do you explain the primary version's disappearance?

The problem would then be who do you hire to match Boseman's performance.

I'd have gone with John David Washington or Lakeith Stanfield, but I'm no casting professional.

Speaking of casts and whatnot, in light of recent sexual allegations, T.I., who played Scott Lang's friend Dave, isn't showing up for Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 1st 2021 at 4:28:28 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#125665: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:25:47 PM

I can see them not recasting for the time being, but eventually bring T'Challa back in via Time-Shifted Actor.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125666: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:27:08 PM

[up] Huh how old was T'Challa?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125667: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:30:57 PM

[up] I know Boseman was either in his early or mid-40's, but I forget if T'Challa was supposed 5 or so years younger...

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#125668: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:31:08 PM

I think he's implied to be pretty young. Felt like he was suggested to be in his 20s considering Shuri (whose actor is around 30 now) was said to be in her teens in the first movie (which took place around 2016). And Chadwick Boseman was known for being a real life example of Older Than He Looks, meaning they could get away with an actor of similar age without it being too unbelievable.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 1st 2021 at 7:31:54 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125669: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:40:24 PM

[up] (Ⓞ_Ⓞ)

I hate to admit it (again), but as bad as that sounds, it's actually a good point.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 1st 2021 at 4:42:41 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125670: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:40:27 PM

Who could we get then

Would Idris Alba work. He is old enough.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125671: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:44:55 PM

[up] Not sure if I would want to see Idris Elba...

If we're talking about guys who are closer to T'Challa's age, Lakeith Stanfield is 29 while John David Washington is 36.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 1st 2021 at 4:45:08 AM

EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#125672: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:46:26 PM

My guess is mid-30's given Chadwicks own age and the way he was presented in the movies, he was a new King but not fresh to the costumed stuff.

The question to recast or not is difficult. It did feel like we just got to really know the character so it's a shame not to continue, but recasting is basically like starting over anyway. Likewise having the character die off screen after his death and resurrection in Infinity War / Endgame doesn't feel right either. I do like the idea of a flashback to a young T'Challa, as it pays respect to the character but can also facilitate whatever happens with his legacy.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125673: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:48:23 PM

It is a shame we won't get Magnificent Bastard T'Challa.

The same guy who is capable of figuring out the solution to cure Galactus alongside the brightest minds on the planet.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125674: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:48:43 PM

There’s going to be a T’Challa focused episode in What If

That might be something to do. Do a couple of Black Panther things in other works first

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125675: Mar 1st 2021 at 4:49:47 PM

The question to recast or not is difficult. It did feel like we just got to really know the character so it's a shame not to continue, but recasting is basically like starting over anyway. Likewise having the character die off screen after his death and resurrection in Infinity War / Endgame doesn't feel right either. I do like the idea of a flashback to a young T'Challa, as it pays respect to the character but can also facilitate whatever happens with his legacy.

[up][up][up] Agh, I hate how T'Challa got dusted in Infinity War only to lose him for real two years later in real world time. (I wouldn't be surprised if IW's writers are probably kicking themselves for that...)

How did WB handle the Dumbledore recasting? (It's the only analogy I can think of for this kind of situation, sorry.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 1st 2021 at 4:57:09 AM


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