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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#125551: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:40:20 PM

2012 is actually I think (by blind accident) a solid idea for the Time Stone retrieval even with Strange/Wong, because The Ancient One had a lot more experience with it and a greater degree of knowledge of alternate timelines. Strange/Wong going to talk to The Ancient One to explain the situation is actually much simpler than the Hulk doing it, because they'd A) be able to speak in Ancient One's magic-based understanding of things B) be figures familiar to the Ancient One. If Strange went back to retrieve it from himself he might actually have a harder time because he never mastered the Time Stone like the Ancient One did and thus might take longer to convince that Future!Strange isn't a Dormmamu deception or somesuch.

If you get that rough sketch of the alternate!Time Heist I put forth and flipped Wong and Strange in roles, you can even have a pretty sweet moment where The Ancient One meets her future greatest pupil ahead of schedule and Strange his dead mentor one last time and they have an echo of their last chat about time.

Ancient One (about her own death to Future!Strange): Will I be ready?

Doctor Strange: No one ever is. We don't get to choose our time. Death is what gives life meaning...to know your days are numbered, your time is short.

Ancient One: Who told you that?

Doctor Strange: You did. You will.

(both smile in a bittersweet fashion before Strange departs back to his own timeline).

Edited by Gaon on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:41:32 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125552: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:46:16 PM

My crackpot theory is that this will be an episode of What If, but instead of a Time Heist the heroes resurrect everyone, leading to MCU's Marvel Zombies. Either that or it'll be from a timeline where Dormammu successfully invades.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125553: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:47:00 PM

Actually, thinking on it, another point to consider is that even if they came to the same conclusion about the Time Heist, they might have gone to different points in time to retrieve the Stones. Certainly I think Doctor Strange would be able to think of a better era to get the Time Stone than 2012, where he knows he didn't have it at least.

Going even further than that, they specifically went to the events of The Avengers because they didn't have a lot of trips, had no idea what they were going into and it was easier to go to a place where a bunch of the stones were in the same place at the same time.

Without those restrictions, they could've more easily said "we each go to individual periods where the stone isn't just there, but safe, like some random point where Strange is sitting in his library reading, or some time during Odin's reign where the space stone is just sitting in storage, etc."

Although... downside, with Thor gone I don't think there's anybody on Earth who knows anything about the Reality stone.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:48:58 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125554: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:48:35 PM

[up] I guess the surviving Guardians would remember that it was with the Collector, so they may have sent another party to 2014 instead of going back to 2013.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125555: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:49:44 PM

Oh, true. But did the Guardians know how long the Collector had it, though? Thor just told them he gave it to the guy.

Granted, that would just mean they could go to maybe a few days before Thanos attacked, no big.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:51:00 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125557: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:53:11 PM

Man, The Collector was kind of wasted. When he first showed up I was hoping we would get lead in to the Elders of the Universe: especially when the Grandmaster showed up.

Though tbf, it's unclear whether he's still alive or not. I mean probably not given that Thanos completely wrecked his shit, but we never saw a body. Same with the Grandmaster.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:53:44 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#125558: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:56:33 PM

The Nova Corps is what comes to my mind when I hear "Wasted opportunity".

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125559: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:57:32 PM

[up]x2 My only frame of reference for the Elders is Avengers: No Surrender. Are there any other big stories involving them?

Also, with the Guardians presumably going to the Collector right before Thanos' invasion, may be the reason why Thanos would go to the future would be him capturing one of the Guardians (presumably Star-Lord for maximum drama) and getting the info out of them in some way.

[nja]'d

[up] they get blown up every other Wednesday in the comics too, now that I think about it.

Edited by Aleistar on Feb 27th 2021 at 4:58:40 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125560: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:58:59 PM

At least they're definitely still around, if in shambles (which is perfect for Dick Rider's backstory, iirc). They could announce a Nova adaptation tomorrow and they wouldn't have to explain anything.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 2:01:36 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125561: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:00:55 PM

Would they know that the Soul Stone was on Vormir? I don't remember if Nebula has the time to explicitly mention it was there it when they are on Titan, and she's the only one apart from Gamora who knew where it was.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125562: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:02:19 PM

[up] Maybe the Hand Wave would be Mantis was able to see into Thanos' memories when she was restraining him and somehow got Vormir from that.

Edited by Aleistar on Feb 27th 2021 at 5:02:29 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#125563: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:02:36 PM

Like I said, I assumed the same rough "limited number" of travel make my life easier (since it'd be a entirely different story if they had a unlimited number of travels). The Guardians at least would know that it was in The Collector's collection (Thor outright tells them this during Infinity War) and Strange and Wong both had knowledge of what it was, so they can scramble something out.

In theory the optimal periods for each Stone (if you have unlimited travel and with the roster I laid down a few posts earlier) would probably be:

  • Space Stone: 1970s SHIELD for the Tesseract, sure.
  • Time Stone: Sanctum Sanctorum at some point between post Battle of New York in 2012 and Ancient One's death in 2016 where they could just ask her.
  • Power Stone: up-until-Starlord's-theft-in-2014 Morag. Power Stone is just lying there.
  • Reality Stone: The Collector's collection post Asgard-giving-him-it-in-2013 and pre Thanos-taking-it-in-2018.
  • Mind Stone: Probably 2015, where it was in Strucker's castle. They'd just need to steal it a few days before they did in-universe (a trivial task even in the original timeline, let alone with foreknowledge).
  • Soul Stone: Doesn't really matter. They'd still need to kill one of themselves for it, though.

[nja]

Edited by Gaon on Feb 27th 2021 at 2:03:08 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125564: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:03:21 PM

[up][up][up] The big one is Contest of Champions, in which Grandmaster and Death compete using Marvel heroes and villains as pawns, with Collector in the balance. It's similar in essence to Secret Wars, so I think a composite would make a cool film concept.

Beyond that, the Elders are kind of like Uatu the Watcher in that they're all over the place cosmically and show up here and there in various titles and storylines for significant moments.

Grandmaster's also really important to JLA / Avengers, which is my unattainable film pipe dream lol.

Would they know that the Soul Stone was on Vormir? I don't remember if Nebula has the time to explicitly mention it was there it when they are on Titan, and she's the only one apart from Gamora who knew where it was.

Nebula told everybody on Titan about it, and the remaining Guardians would probably be able to chart the way there.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 2:05:20 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#125565: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:04:16 PM

[up]x7 For me, no Mandarin vs Iron Man is the MCU's biggest wasted opportunity. I know Shane Black tried to justify it as Values Dissonance, but by that same logic we can't have Batman vs Ra's al Ghul anymore.

Mandarin vs. Shang-Chi is appreciated, but it's just not the same.

Edited by lbssb on Feb 27th 2021 at 2:04:39 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125566: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:05:23 PM

Huh they should really make a Nova movie now.

Make a better Green Lantern film than DC did. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125567: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:05:54 PM

Grandmaster's also really important to JLA / Avengers, which is my unattainable film pipe dream lol.

Give it a year or two, and Disney will also have bought DC and Warner.

Edited by C105 on Feb 27th 2021 at 11:06:24 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125568: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:06:02 PM

[up][up]Like that's hard.

Edited by HailMuffins on Feb 27th 2021 at 7:06:17 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125569: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:07:35 PM

Wasn't Nova in the original Guardians 1 script? I remember reading somewhere (maybe on This Very Wiki) that he was initially a main character but James Gunn took him out because he didn't think Dick Rider was all that interesting.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125570: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:07:57 PM

[up][up]I'm probably the only one thinking that, but I did not find the Green Lantern movie that bad. The origin story part was at least well done (the final fight... not so much). And at least it had a hilarious aversion to Clark Kenting.

Edited by C105 on Feb 27th 2021 at 11:08:27 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#125571: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:11:56 PM

> Huh they should really make a Nova movie now.

Suggestion, Nova Corps:Now recruiting!

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 27th 2021 at 10:12:09 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#125572: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:13:35 PM

Of course this reason is Doylist, but for plot purposes the Avengers most of the time chose to jump to periods where the Stones were central to big events instead of just sitting around unused for years, because the Time Heist is about being a clip show of the MCU’s highlights. Audiences want to see Star-Lord dancing again, not War Machine and Nebula walking down an empty cave centuries before Nebula was born, so by that metric the opposite Snap team is also obligated to travel to famous eras and get into fights with their past selves instead of peacefully boring visits. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2021 at 2:14:32 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125573: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:30:15 PM

[up] Technically the 1970 trip was one of those "safe" trips. Tony and Steve did not have to fight anyone and the Tesseract really was lying safely in a vault. Although I'm still miffed that this one trip had absolutely no foreshadowing of any kind and I still wonder how Tony was so sure the Pym particles would be there.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125574: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:32:31 PM

that he was initially a main character but James Gunn took him out because he didn't think Dick Rider was all that interesting

Wow. Thanks Gunn! Now he'll probably never get adapted into other media! That's the kind of shit he needs.

And how is Rich boring? Didn't he save the whole fucking universe in Annihilation?

Didn't he do it by yanking out the heart of the Big Bad of the arc? Wasn't it happening during the same time as Civil War, with that story being considered superior?

How is he fucking boring? Now I'm actually mad! He threw Rich and the corps under the bus, and while I like the movie we got, the oh this character is boring! excuse is just that: a damned excuse!

He's lucky that Guardians was actually pretty good..

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125575: Feb 27th 2021 at 2:33:57 PM

I think he ripped out his entire set of organs

It was gross but impressive

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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