TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#125526: Feb 27th 2021 at 8:24:55 AM

So, the other half of the Universe?

Oh boy, Thanos snapping himself.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125527: Feb 27th 2021 at 8:30:43 AM

So the upside of that is that they don’t have to go on a time heist but the downside is that I don’t know if there’s anyone left powerful enough to handle doing the snap

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#125528: Feb 27th 2021 at 8:34:12 AM

I'd actually try Quill, come to think of it. Admittedly, his celestial-ness might not work anymore and even when it did it might not be powerful enough. Still, worth a shot.

Leviticus 19:34
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#125529: Feb 27th 2021 at 8:56:51 AM

Would that mean that Ant-Man would have been Snapped, or would he still be left alive due to being in a different plane of existence (the Quantum Realm)?

Word of God is that the Quantum Realm did not protect Scott from the Snap. He just got lucky like everyone else who survived.

Also given that Thanos wanted to be worshipped and he also had to destroy the Infinity Stones afterward I’m confident he did not include himself in the pool of the Snap.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2021 at 8:58:43 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125530: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:30:13 AM

Really?

But when you consider where he ended up, he wasn't that lucky.

The fact that being in the Quantum realm wouldn't have saved him means he was screwed either way.

Edit: Told an acquaintance about the Scott got lucky claim. He calls bullshit. Says that since the Quantum Realm is another universe, Scott shouldn't have been affected while he was there.

I kinda see his point, but what do you guys think?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Feb 27th 2021 at 5:36:46 PM

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#125531: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:38:48 AM

> Quantum Realm is another universe

Its more like a pocket dimension that's still technically in the main universe I think

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#125532: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:45:37 AM

People who were Snapped had all their clothes disintegrate with them. So, presumably, if Thanos had Snapped himself, that would also have destroyed the Infinity Gauntlet, since he was wearing it at the time.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#125533: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:50:09 AM

I don’t think it would’ve been that simple because we saw that when Thanos intentionally wished for the Stones to be destroyed it took an enormous amount of energy from the Gems comparable to his first wish. They don’t crumble very easily.

And then there’s the question of if the rest of the Snap would even happen if Thanos faded with the Gauntlet first and thus there’s no power source for the wish.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2021 at 9:51:24 AM

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#125534: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:52:29 AM

[up]Which says a lot about Wanda being able to destroy one of them, if you think about it.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125535: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:57:47 AM

The Quantum Realm is not "another universe", it's the same reality we live in but on a microspopic scale.

Physics are wobbly there because physics work differently once you go in too low or too large a scale, that thing works the same way in the real world.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#125536: Feb 27th 2021 at 9:59:55 AM

Scott might have died, sure, but now you have unlimited Pym Particles thanks to Hank.

The legend has returned.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#125537: Feb 27th 2021 at 10:00:42 AM

yo dang,we put a universe in your universe ..

[up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 27th 2021 at 6:00:56 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125538: Feb 27th 2021 at 10:03:51 AM

Of course without Scott’s experience with the time weirdery in the quantum realm there would not have been the inspiration for the time heist

Edited by Bocaj on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:04:02 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#125539: Feb 27th 2021 at 10:57:47 AM

It would have been amusing if the gauntlet was destroyed, but the stones were fine so they just... plopped down.

If Scott did get snapped, that could be a pretty major alteration to the timeline. I suppose there's a chance the Pyms could have figured things out, though.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#125540: Feb 27th 2021 at 11:21:13 AM

[up][up]Janet would've probably had the same knowledge, though. In fact, her not being trapped would probably result in an immediate Time Heist and no five-year Blip.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125541: Feb 27th 2021 at 11:25:31 AM

Also, Pym and Janet surviving would mean that instead of them only having a very limited amount of Pym particles to use for the heist, they would have as many as they needed.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125542: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:22:35 PM

I wonder however if they could have been able to build the time machine without Tony, although I subscribe to the theory that Shuri is just as clever as him, if not more, so they would have been good on that point. And there is the question of who would get to sacrifice themselves on Vormir.

Given how much forethought Thanos gave to his plan, I very much doubt he would have included himself in the Snap either way, if only to prevent someone else to grab the Gauntlet and undo it in the second after he disappeared.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125543: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:29:04 PM

And there is the question of who would get to sacrifice themselves on Vormir.

Basically chance, since they didn't know about it until they got there. Could be any of them.

Even Nebula, who knew something happened on Vormir requiring Gamora's death to get the Soul Stone, either didn't know the specifics or chose not to tell the others about it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2021 at 12:30:20 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125544: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:32:59 PM

Not exactly.

All she knew is that both Gamora and Thanos went to Vormir and only Thanos returned.

She knew he killed Gamora, and likely reasoned it had something to do with the stone, but likely assumed he killed Gamora because the latter tried to stop him from getting the stone.

Nebula had no way of guessing the requirement for the Soul Stone.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125545: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:42:10 PM

Everyone: “This looks like a job for Hank Pym”

Hank: -flips the bird-

Falcon: “Hey!”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125546: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:55:56 PM

[up][up] Like I said, she didn't know the specifics.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#125547: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:12:57 PM

Another thing to ponder about this setup: how would it potentially affect the events of WandaVision?

For reference, here's the canon fates for the characters relevant to that show:

  • Wanda: Snapped
  • Vision: Killed before the Snap
  • Monica: Snapped
  • Heyward: Spared
  • Jimmy and Darcy: Unknown, but Word of Saint Paul claims they survived.
  • Agnes/Agatha Harkness: Unknown. No hints either way.
  • Maria Rambeau: Spared, but died of cancer in the interim.

Edited by lbssb on Feb 27th 2021 at 1:13:22 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#125548: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:22:19 PM

Hang on, let me break down if you flip 50/50 who got snapped:

People who'd be dead:

  • Captain America/Steve Rogers.
  • Iron Man/Tony Stark.
  • Thor.
  • Black Widow/Natasha Romanoff.
  • Hulk/Bruce Banner.
  • War Machine/James Rhodes.
  • Rocket and Nebula.
  • Okoye and M’Baku.
  • Ant-Man/Scott Lang.
  • Hawkeye/Clint Barton.
  • Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers.

The Time Heist breakdown in our timeline:

  • Banner, Lang, Rogers, and Stark (2012, New York Battle).
    • Rogers and Stark (1970).
  • Rocket and Thor (2013).
  • Barton, Romanoff (2014, Vormir), Nebula, and Rhodes (2014, Morag).

Here's who'd be still kickin':

  • Black Panther/T’Challa.

  • Shuri.

  • Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

  • Doctor Strange (and Wong!).

  • Bucky Barnes

  • Falcon/Sam Wilson.

  • Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff.

  • Star-Lord, Groot, Drax and Mantis.

  • Nick Fury and Maria Hill.

  • Hope Pym, Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne.

We do lose Stark and Banner, the intellectual heavy-hitters of the group, but we have Hank, Janet and Shuri so it's kind of a trade-off and I feel like they might also be able to construct the machine. On the other hand we have the physical heavy hitters by way of Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange.

There's a bunch of domino effect tidbits here:

  • With Captain Marvel dead, Doctor Strange would presumably be the only way back to earth for the cast in Titan (Spidey and The Guardians).
  • With Scott dead, there's nobody to theorize the quantum realm time travel shenanigans on empirical evidence (as scott comes to the conclusion after the five years are five hours to him) unless Hank and Janet arrive to the same conclusion independently (which is plausible, considering Janet's vast experience in the Quantum Realm).
  • The biggest question is if they'd take the five years to reach the time machine conclusion as in our timeline (they could theoretically do it quicker with Hank and Janet unsnapped but that's a lot of assumptions).

Based on the rough groupings (and for the sake of not losing my goddamn mind in possibilities, I'll operate as if they still adhere to the rough groupings of the original for whatever mumbo jumbo reason), The Time Heist goes:

  • 2012 New York: Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Wong and Hope Van Dyne - Hill, Fury and Hope take the scepter (the former two know SHIELD procedures and could plausibly be in the Battle of NY at the time, though it'd take a lot more handwaving). Wong takes the Time Stone talking to The Ancient One.
    • 1970: Nick Fury and Maria Hill - Know SHIELD procedures, would probably be able to fake their way a lot better than Rogers and Stark.
  • 2013 Asgard: Doctor Strange and Shuri - Strange has more familiarity with Asgardian magic to blend in and Shuri can do Rocket's part to remove the Reality Stone from Jane.
  • Falcon, Bucky (2014, Vormir), Star-Lord, Mantis (2014, Morag) - Falcon can fly so he would likely be the one sacrificing himself (if Bucky tried to leap Falcon would probably catch him mid-air and throw him away). Star-Lord and Mantis can more easily take the Power Stone considering Star-Lord stole it in the first place and Mantis can just subdue the original timeline Starlord. Without Nebula being there, Past!Thanos can't learn about the whole shebang and travel to the future.

Trying to adhere to the numbers this means Spidey, Wanda, Groot and Drax stay back home. Everybody returns, but without Hulk someone else has to do the snapping. Groot, I think, would be the closest replacement but I don't think he would survive (or at least not withoout going back to baby groot).

Huh. Without Nebula traveling back in time the entire third act of the movie can't happen (and if it does happen somehow, Thanos's invasion would run smack-dab in the home team of Groot-Drax-Wanda-Spidey, and Wanda alone can fuck up his shit) and you actually have a broad net positive of survivals (Falcon and Groot both die permanently, presumably, but everyone else lingers).

Maybe Strange was accounting for that timeline and just had to bullshit his way in when he got the flipside opposite result of what he wanted.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125549: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:23:02 PM

[up][up]Wanda would still find herself with having to cope with Vision's death either way. I don't know how spoilery we can go on this thread when talking about this show, but I'd say this would mean she would find herself in the same frame of mind that led her to create the Hex, so the premise of the show would stay the same. The reaction of the other characters would probably be different.

Edited by C105 on Feb 27th 2021 at 10:23:22 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#125550: Feb 27th 2021 at 1:26:19 PM

[up][up]Actually, thinking on it, another point to consider is that even if they came to the same conclusion about the Time Heist, they might have gone to different points in time to retrieve the Stones. Certainly I think Doctor Strange would be able to think of a better era to get the Time Stone than 2012, where he knows he didn't have it at least.


Total posts: 186,763
Top