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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125426: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:33:16 PM

[up][up][up] Oh, definitely. I get that. It sucks. And continuing to release media online is unfair to the creators and crews of those films, as it will almost certainly start to impact their livelihoods and ability to sustain themselves on their work before long.

But it's a complicated situation. There is no "right" way to deal with movies right now: everything sucks. X film releasing and films or not both have their own pitfalls, because it's a bad situation where everything is either dangerous, costly or exploitative.

As a result, [up][up] this is absolutely true. If I can be blunt, saying people are selfish and privileged for being bothered by having to go to the theatres in a pandemic and that they should suck it up and get vaccinnated is, itself, the most privileged thing I've heard all day.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 24th 2021 at 4:33:42 AM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#125427: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:34:50 PM

Okay, that's been settled.

Back on topic now?

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#125428: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:36:00 PM

Anyway, villains for the new Spider-Man? It’s Kraven’s time to shine.

The legend has returned.
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125429: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:36:46 PM

I guess, sort of related, what Marvel things are coming out this year? On the Disney Plus side, Wanda Vision is wrapping up, and Falcon and WS as well as Loki are coming out in the next few months. I think Black Widow is supposed to come out in October/November; what else is there?

[up] I mean, Jamie Foxx and Alfred Molina are already returning. I don't think either will be the Big Bad, but there are definitely possibilities, Kraven among them.

Edited by Aleistar on Feb 24th 2021 at 7:39:09 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125430: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:37:48 PM

This was noted on the Wanda Vision thread, but it be the perfect time for the Thunderbolts to come in considering how most of Earth’s greatest heroes are either dead, incapacitated, retired, off-world, or just traumatized.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125431: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:44:30 PM

And we have a certain Sokovian in a purple mask looking to kick every heroes ass too.

What better way to do that than make his own team.

Like, Thanos has shown us the benefits of DIY....or technically DIM.

One Strip! One Strip!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#125432: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:46:16 PM

Are they still holding on to a theatrical-only Black Widow release? If they aim to release it before Spider-Man I can't see that working.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#125433: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:47:25 PM

> Anyway, villains for the new Spider-Man? It’s Kraven’s time to shine.

Kraven definitely,on other hand going through the list of spider man villains the ones that interest me the most are Mr.Negative and Looter

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125434: Feb 24th 2021 at 4:49:24 PM

Anyway, villains for the new Spider-Man? It’s Kraven’s time to shine.

Since what little we see has Peter being in some kind of ratty hideout, I'm again thinking that the plot should be "Jameson/the gullible public puts out a bounty for mercenaries to hunt down Spidey," with him on the run from a bunch of different villains who are all individually trying to take him in (with one pulling ahead as the Big Bad, while the others are more minor).

With that in mind, Kraven is a perfect choice. And if that is the plot, us getting Electro and Ock makes sense: this is the perfect environment to introduce a bunch of Spidey's rogues for an action scene or two without necessarily having any of them be too important to the story.

Spider-Man PS 4 has made me really want to see Mr. Negative in more stuff, though.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 24th 2021 at 4:50:58 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#125435: Feb 24th 2021 at 6:08:20 PM

So apparently Blade's going to be pg-13. Not sure how I feel about this. The essence of the character is very dark and bloody. Sort of how I feel a good Wolverine movie should be rated R if not as dark as Logan, since the essence of the character is he's man with knives on his hands. It's not gonna be pretty when that finishes. But I do trust Feige to know what he's doing.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#125436: Feb 24th 2021 at 7:09:20 PM

They could always just establish that vampires, being walking corpses, don't bleed, since all their blood's coagulated.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#125437: Feb 24th 2021 at 7:54:14 PM

I think the r-rated appeal is pretty strongly the appeal of the original films, but I think the character himself has no particular "must be r-rated" tag outside of those, and he has done fine in less violent outings (like showing up in multiple spider-man cartoons and having his own anime, which while violent, wasn't that violent). The problem is the movies are really the character's peak, so we'll have to see how future movies work outside of those parameters.

The vampires themselves (being monsters who often turn to ash and the like upon being slashed, something that was even the major thing in the original r-rated movies) aren't a problem in PG-13, the fact they drink blood is actually a bigger one (and PG-13 cinema is very squeamish about blood showing up, hence Bloodless Carnage) and something they'll have to figure out by themselves.

There's actually relatively few comic book heroes who must be r-rated (Punisher being one off the top of my head, as he always feels constrained when in a non r-rated setting). I'm a big fan of Deadpool, and I never really agreed with the idea that he must be r-rated because he has had plenty of runs with little blood and more looney tunes-esque humour rather than sex jokes. Same goes for Wolverine, who has also worked fine slashing people to ribbons without blood showing.

Blade's in that same category: r-rating might enhance him in some fashion given the violence level he deals with, but he works fine without it.

Edited by Gaon on Feb 24th 2021 at 7:54:41 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#125438: Feb 24th 2021 at 9:03:57 PM

I rewatched Iron Man 2 and god I can't get over "Congratulations, sir. You have discovered a new element."

That's... that's not how chemistry works.

Where does it go on the periodic table? How many protons does it have?

If he were discovering a new isotope or compound maybe I'd buy it, but a new element shatters my suspension of disbelief.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#125439: Feb 24th 2021 at 11:30:52 PM

I assumed it was super high on the periodic table, like way more protons and electrons than every element we've discovered so far. The power level of this element was off the charts.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125440: Feb 25th 2021 at 3:46:26 AM

I feel like trying to judge the scientific accuracy of that "new element" line against everything else that goes on in the MCU is an exercise in pedantry so great that even I, the king of scientific pedantry on these forums, have to shake my head.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, since we're here, the reason heavier elements are unstable is that the strong nuclear force has a very short range, and as you cram more protons and neutrons together into a nucleus, its radius increases until the repulsive force between protons exceeds the force binding them together.

To say that Tony synthesized a stable transuranic element is to suggest that he somehow managed to alter the effective range of the strong nuclear force, which would truthfully be one hell of a feat... albeit one with pretty radical consequences.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 25th 2021 at 6:50:39 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125441: Feb 25th 2021 at 3:56:51 AM

Isn't it supposed to be a hypothetical area of transuranic elements that should be more stable? I assumed Tony had managed to hit this area, and that "transuranic stable element" in the MCU meant awesomely unending power source.

Next we can wonder what vibranium is exactly.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125442: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:26:41 AM

I have no idea since I am not a theoretical atomic physicist (IANATAP), but for the purposes of the Iron Man 2 story it can be considered pure technobabble.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 25th 2021 at 7:29:09 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#125443: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:32:02 AM

Of course, given Vision's Servile Snarker personality, he might also have been fucking with Tony in a sarcastic "wow look at you, so smart" way.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#125444: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:41:00 AM

I mean, we can predict how elements would work, and that nowadays is more physics than chemistry; for chemistry, elements gotta interact with each other, not be isolated nucleii that break down in nanoseconds.

Still, we can predict that, due to how orbitals work, element 121 would be the first of an extension akin to lantanids/actinids, so, here be dragons. Lantanids and actinids do bring up 14 new groups, but they do have stable elements; from 121 to 139 it'd be all new groups of highly unstable nucleii whose chemical behaviour would be brand new, apart of, well, being metallic, because everything tends to be metallic.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#125445: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:43:09 AM

The main problem was that when Iron Man 2 came out in Phase 1 we were still firmly in the Like Reality, Unless Noted stage of the setting where most superheroism is meant to be at least somewhat plausible, and even compared to the others Iron Man is supposed to be a Science Hero figure. Even a relative nonexpert (someone with a high school science education) would not have a hard time finding out what Tony did at least strange if not bordering on the realm of Critical Research Failure.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125446: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:46:59 AM

[up] I don't know about you, but I figured out that Tony was a wizard rather than a scientist when he made the first arc reactor. Palladium is nifty but as far as I know it does not catalyze a reaction that produces a near-infinite energy source. IANATAP.

The MCU films are peak popcorn movies; expecting scientific accuracy from them is missing the point so badly that you accidentally shot your grandma two towns over.

Like I said before, I am the absolute king of pedantry when it comes to this topic and I give the MCU a total pass. At best I groan a little when a particularly dumb bit of technobabble pops up.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 25th 2021 at 7:48:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125447: Feb 25th 2021 at 4:54:49 AM

NVM

Edited by HailMuffins on Feb 25th 2021 at 9:55:25 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125448: Feb 25th 2021 at 5:14:03 AM

The one "scientific" thing that actually buggednote  me was how shrinking worked in Ant-Man, because it was actually not consistent with itself, between what Hank said and what happened. Shrunk Scott was supposed to have kept his mass while shrunk and as such could deliver punches with the strength of a normal-sized man, yet Hank carried around a tank as a keyring getting holes in his pockets. So maybe only living things keep their mass, but then Scott should not be able to climb on Falcon without him collapsing under the weight.

And yes, I know, I am arguing about how a technology for shrinking people to the size of an ant works, but I like Phlebotinums to be at least consistent with what is said on screen. I don't mind for instance the tech behind Tony's armours, because it is established early on that the Arc reactor could output a gazillion watts, and everybody knows "energy" is all that is needed to power any kind of incredible technologies.

Edited by C105 on Feb 25th 2021 at 2:17:02 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125449: Feb 25th 2021 at 5:15:29 AM

Yes, that's hilariously inconsistent, but hey, as far as I know the comic books made no more effort to explain how Ant-Man's powers worked than the films.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 25th 2021 at 8:21:05 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125450: Feb 25th 2021 at 5:19:43 AM

[up] Then again, the comic books, especially the 60's ones, did not even pretend to give any kind of scientific explanation as long as you could invoke radiations, cosmic rays, or, barring that, some unknown element created in a laboratory.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

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