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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#125176: Feb 19th 2021 at 5:48:55 PM

Namor is best buddies with Dr. Doom. That should tell you everything.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125177: Feb 19th 2021 at 5:53:43 PM

A lot of people made bad life choices in spider man life story

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125178: Feb 19th 2021 at 5:55:38 PM

Indeed but ya gotta wonder where is the sense in leaving Reed who did do some awful things for Namor of all people on the planet.

Really makes you wonder what the fuck is wrong with Sue's taste in men.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125179: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:11:41 PM

Wait, there are storylines where Sue actually leaves Reed for Namor (yeah I'm not a comic book expert as you probably have guessed)?

The worst I saw her do was one story where she fantasied about Namor but it was part of some plot by Doom which Reed had actually begun to counter before he started, if I remember correctly.

Edited by C105 on Feb 19th 2021 at 3:12:09 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125180: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:22:44 PM

The only thing Namor has over Reed is that he’s more attentive although verging into clinginess

A Civil War rescript I read had Sue basically go hang out with Namor out of anger for Reed’s role in Civil War but then leave to go back to Reed once Namor started getting clingy

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125181: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:23:47 PM

[up]x2 The book people are referencing is Spider-Man: Life Story, which is an alternate version of the main Marvel U where, among other things, Sure leaves Reed for Namor sometime in the 70s.

I think there's probably a What If comic where that also happens, but ad far as I know Sue had never had an extended relationship with Namor in the main Marvel version.

[nja]'d

EDIT: Aren't Namor's film rights owned by Universal or some other studio?

Edited by Aleistar on Feb 19th 2021 at 9:24:41 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#125182: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:25:01 PM

[up][up]He's also way, way hotter.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125183: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:25:11 PM

[up][up][up] Well he does tend to threaten flattening New York with a tidal wave unless he leaves with her so yeah thats clingy.

[up] Well he's definitely considered attractive to the shrimp people.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 19th 2021 at 6:25:42 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125184: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:26:17 PM

I mean he’s got abs and knows how to use them

Can’t deny that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125185: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:27:57 PM

Granted Killgrave is an attractive man yet he's absolutely abhorrent so its not like physical looks is worth that much.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#125186: Feb 19th 2021 at 7:19:25 PM

He can also squirt water out of his pores like a sprinkler, can Reed do THAT?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125187: Feb 19th 2021 at 7:52:07 PM

[up]

We don't talk about that.

I admit, Namor is in a very weird place right now.

I kinda got the impression he was considered superior to Arthur for years, but Aquaman has been getting a lot of positive press in the name of fighting his Super Friends portrayal, which has culminated in his portrayals in Justice League (a shitty movie, but I liked him there) and finally his own movie, which is considered a good movie (alongside the first Wonder Woman film) not only compared to a lot of what came before in the DC film verse, but a good film period.

To people who know nothing of comics, Namor will be the inferior pretender now, and as others have said, Marvel's gonna have a hell of a time setting him apart from Arthur (especially since some might find the wing feet kind lame).

We might start seeing Namor has stupid wing feet memes all over the place soon, and his history is....a lot more sordid. It's gonna be hard to get people to like him or take him seriously.

One Strip! One Strip!
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#125188: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:00:45 PM

Honest question: when was the last time Namor was in an adaptation? I can only think of the old 60s Marvel Heroes show. He's not in the general consciousness much at all, is my general point. I guess an MCU Namor might have to struggle against that perception, unless he's marketed as "jerk Aquaman" from the get-go.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125189: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:02:31 PM

You ask me, Arthur's redemption started was back with DCAU's Justice League cartoon.

Namor never really had much rep outside the comics, did he?

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#125190: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:02:48 PM

[up]He was a selectable character in the Spider Man arcade game...for reasons. The other three were Spidey, Black Cat, and Hawkeye, so half the roster was just weird (no Daredevil?)

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125191: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:07:17 PM

Honestly I never really expected Namor to be a lead of his own movie.

Its like not everyone is the MC, that's why their are antagonists and supporting characters.

The most I expected is antagonizing Black Panther because king vs king or maybe appearing in FF if they keep his obsession with Sue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#125192: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:14:32 PM

There was a thread from a Capcom employee last year who worked on the Marvel vs. Capcom games, and he said Namor's inclusion in the Spider-Man game was likely a result of Marvel pushing him on Sega (they were really trying to make Namor a major solo player in the 90s) and Sega being too clueless about American superheroes to realize even in America, nobody really knew who he was outside comic fans.

New TFATWS spot.

Edited by comicwriter on Feb 19th 2021 at 8:14:48 AM

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#125193: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:17:04 PM

The worst I saw her do was one story where she fantasied about Namor but it was part of some plot by Doom which Reed had actually begun to counter before he started, if I remember correctly.

Ah, yes, the 1234 mini-series by Grant Morrison. Essentially Morrison's attempt at a Decon-Recon Switch for the Fantastic Four that ultimately deconstructs Doctor Doom's Noble Demon shtick.

Speaking of Doom and Marvel characters versus DC characters, I think it's interesting to compare Doom with Lex Luthor. Both are men with superficially noble goals ("Rule the world for its own good" in Doom's case, "Protect humanity against the superhuman threat" for Luthor) that are actually a cover for their envy of their respective arch-nemeses ("RIIIICHARDS" for Doom and "the alien" for Luthor). The only difference is that Doom gets the Draco in Leather Pants treatment all the time, while Luthor is far more commonly treated as a total bastard.

Trope Editor (he/him)
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125194: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:18:12 PM

The obsession with Sue has to be dropped, or reconceptualized in a way that makes him less of an asshole.

Yeah, that one's gonna be tough.

I think Namor was in the first two Ultimate Alliance games.

He also appeared in the first season of the 90s FF cartoon and 2007's world's greatest heroes.

But yeah, you could argue he's not nearly as well known, ironically enough because Aquaman was brought due to his Forced Meme Joke Character status, which means that with people now taking him seriously, he's far more mainstream.

One Strip! One Strip!
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#125195: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:21:45 PM

Namor is always some kind of complete asshole. The question is which ones will not make the people want his head on a pike.

Edited by Blueace on Feb 19th 2021 at 1:22:26 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125196: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:28:00 PM

I mean I have no problem with him being an asshole, it makes Namor a distinctive enough character.

You need your Heel characters after all.

So if Namor is a stalker to Sue in the movie then hopefully it ends with her forming a bubble around his head & choke him a bit to make sure she never bothers her again.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 19th 2021 at 8:28:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125197: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:30:57 PM

Even if it turned him into a meme it was ultimately good for Aquaman to be in Superfriends because it gave him market awareness

Aquaman is either in or tied to the Justice League. He’s a big prominent guy in DC and in various adaptations

Namor was an Avenger but he’s never been an iconic Avenger. He’s been a Defender but the Defenders haven’t been relevant in a while. He’s all over the place in Marvel but he’s not prominent. He’s a little tied to the FF and to Doom and to the Avengers and to Wakanda and to the Defenders and to the X Men. But he’s not anyone’s archnemesis or on a popular team. He’s angry ocean man

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#125198: Feb 19th 2021 at 8:54:05 PM

....wow.

He's Quicksilver.

Everywhere, and nowhere.

And also an arrogant asshole.

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#125199: Feb 19th 2021 at 9:03:16 PM

[up]Quicksilver’s still a plot point in one of the most watched TV shows in the US while Namor is mostly forgotten.

Still, there’s lots to be done with him as a foil to other heroes. Especially if the FF hold off on Doom.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 19th 2021 at 12:04:18 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#125200: Feb 19th 2021 at 9:04:41 PM

Longtime Fantastic Four fan but the premise was always meant to be, "Reed is a crappy husband and rather than standing by her man, Sue Storm decides to take up with a man who is more passionate and appreciative." Essentially to disrupt her role as the traditional housewife of superheroines (which never was meant to be her thing unlike, say, Mrs. Incredible).

https://www.cbr.com/fantastic-four-sue-richards-namor-still-have-an-inappropriate-relationship/

Sue flat out separated from Reed and lived with Namor at one point.

No mind control, just, "I am with this guy voluntarily who is not my husband."

It's never been her rejecting Namor because, well, Sue likes Namor a lot. Namor by contrast is an asshole but he can be a charming one. Because while he's friends (I'd say friendly than friends) with Doctor Doom, he's ALSO best friends with Captain America.

And yes, it's basically a pretty straightforward, "Reed would rather be with test tubes than his wife. Namor would rather be with his girlfriend punching Cthulhu."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 19th 2021 at 9:08:15 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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