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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#125101: Feb 16th 2021 at 9:44:21 AM

Granted, I have expressed and continue to feel that retiring T'Challa rather than recasting does a greater disservice to the franchise, but I respect Marvel's position and feel there's a pretty big meta disconnect there between Marvel's choice and the movement to bring Killmonger back.

Yeah, of all the possible scenarios, bringing back Killmonger would be a really bad call.

On a similar note, I recall reading an (initial?) train of speculation was that Black Panther II could be set during the five year time skip that happened between Infinity War and Endgame (which would make sense since T'Challa was Snap'd during that time) and then we'd have a recasting by BP3 when enough time has passed, but given Marvel's explicit decision to not recast and some rumors regarding how they might go for an original character, I highly doubt this will be happening.

(FYI, I'm of the mind that while retiring T'Challa altogether does make things harder for the BP franchise to move forward, the decision was made to honor Boseman's contribution. As such, the "retiring the character" scenario is ultimately the greater good.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Feb 16th 2021 at 9:44:48 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#125102: Feb 16th 2021 at 10:00:37 AM

I have to say I don't quite understand why people want Killmonger to be back so much. Sure, he was an interesting villain, but I really don't see him becoming Black Panther without either drastic changes to his character, or ending with a Nominal Hero Black Panther.

It's too bad that Shuri's actress had to become so controversial. I would have welcomed another MCU film with a female lead. There have not been that many of them so far...

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#125103: Feb 16th 2021 at 10:09:52 AM

They really want Killmonger to be given a second chance and a redemation arc,I think

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#125104: Feb 16th 2021 at 10:42:57 AM

He was one of the better MCU villains. He and Hela are opposite postcolonial villains and that was great. But not all good villains "deserve" a redemption arc.

It's too bad that Shuri's actress had to become so controversial.

Could still happen; maybe she took an entire immunology class online in the last two months and walked back on those views. (Or she saw what happened to Gina Carano and does things differently.)

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#125105: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:42:58 PM

Shuri as Black Panther doesn't make much sense to me other than her being royal blood. She's an inventor, not an athlete.

Nakia or Okoye make more sense skillset-wise, though they'd have to do something like have the title of Black Panther now be an appointed position instead of a birthright.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125106: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:46:28 PM

Which would be for the better in my mind, viva democracy and all that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125107: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:47:06 PM

Well the great king is dead, no point to a monarchy anymore.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#125108: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:49:42 PM

Or, if you want a redemption story with someone, why not W'Kabi?

The legend has returned.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#125109: Feb 16th 2021 at 2:59:18 PM

Shuri was the Black Panther in the comics when T'Challa was out of commission so there's precedent.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 16th 2021 at 6:00:16 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125110: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:05:45 PM

Granted Shuri is very different character in the comics.

They would have to reformat movie-Shuri because yes she is a scientist with no desire to lead the country.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#125111: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:05:48 PM

Comics Shuri currently is pretty close to her film characterization now, being a perky genius inventor, compared to prior where she was a ruthless traditionalist with spiritual powers. Her character writing is pretty malleable.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:06:36 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125112: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:06:44 PM

I'd suggest M'Baku

He's fun

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125113: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:07:01 PM

[up][up] Movie synergy for ya. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:07:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#125114: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:11:13 PM

I still think the Black Panther mantle should be based on merit going forward.

Down with the monarchy, may the rule of democracy reign in the Golden City of Wakanada!

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#125115: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:13:07 PM

[up][up]Yes it's movie synergy but IMO it's better for the character because pre-MCU Shuri could be needlessly cruel, like when she told the Dora Milaje in A Nation Under Our Feet to buzz off and die just because they wanted a system of accountability to deal with cases of sexual harassment.

Now she has fun science adventures with the Marvel Rising kids and we never have to think about that old stuff again. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:13:49 AM

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#125116: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:18:05 PM

[up][up][up] Always my least-favorite part of a new successful Marvel movie.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125117: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:21:34 PM

[up][up] Yeah but still its not exactly organic character growth.

Shuri an adult woman goes from ruthless traditionalist, to spiritual shaman, to apparently de-aging a couple years so she can be a quirky fun scientist.

Its basically how Star-Lord went from rugged space-marine veteran to man-child puckish rogue and even that has a somewhat logical explanation if you go by the theory that Star-Lord's regression is an attempt at him coping with the constant trauma he's experienced all his life, especially his death in the Cancerverse.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:27:33 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#125118: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:26:28 PM

You could handwave something similar for Shuri since the changes happened after she died in Time Runs Out.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125119: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:31:28 PM

Alright that makes enough sense.

Huh to my recollection, I think Shuri being a genius inventor is a decomposite character trait of comics T'Challa who is already a genius inventor and scientist, to the degree he was a member of the Ultimates, a team of heroes with near Godlike power and intellect despite being the only human on the group.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:35:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#125120: Feb 16th 2021 at 3:33:45 PM

As for how movie Shuri will do as Panther, I assume we're going to get a "Shuri tries to be Panther the way T'Challa does, but learns An Aesop about how she can never be him and can only be Panther her own way." Leading into a more tech-based, Guile Hero Panther incarnation.

Which is an aesop in Far From Home (sorta), but still - it fits the situation well. A better comparison would be, almost exactly, Tim Drake's character development as Robin.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#125121: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:36:06 PM

I still think the Black Panther mantle should be based on merit going forward.

It was always based on merit though

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#125122: Feb 16th 2021 at 4:43:20 PM

T'Challa was the Black Panther before he became king, as his father was still the reigning monarch by Civil War.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#125123: Feb 16th 2021 at 6:47:28 PM

Plus the whole concept of a Challenge Day suggests that anyone, if they be mighty enough, can become ruler of Wakanda and Black Panther, not just those in a direct bloodline.

That being said, I'll be surprised if they don't just give us Shuri as the Black Panther. Joe Q Public most likely hasn't even heard of her Twitter remarks, and wouldn't care in any event. And while Shuri has mostly been depicted as a scientist, her training to be a warrior (especially aided by the Heart Shaped Herb) wouldn't be the wildest thing to develop in the MCU.

As is, she nearly beat Killmonger all by herself. Whereas T'Challa exemplified martial prowess augmented by a few technological tricks, Shuri would just go in the other direction.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#125124: Feb 16th 2021 at 7:10:22 PM

Killmonger could easly become the next loki, specially since loki is dead as far movieverse is concern, he is pitable but disgusting enough to be entrating.

And quite frankly, I didnt want him to die, I want him to live to see how wrong he was and how better thing could be, also to punch him in the face everynow and them, which is what make him so intersting.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#125125: Feb 16th 2021 at 7:34:24 PM

Funny question came up in the comments of this video:

Do you think Obi was with HYDRA?


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