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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124851: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:09:06 PM

If all the toxic Misaimed Fandom taking on the Joker as an icon of negative empowerment hasn't stopped DC from cashing on the Joker as a multimedia icon, odds are the Punisher shouldn't need to be made a non-person for the same thing either.

I'd argue that even Harley isn't a positive role model either, and yet there you have her, right now.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#124852: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:13:08 PM

Yeah exactly, censoring a character due to an unintended negative influence on a group of people that is not even the target audience isn't the right way to go.

(For the record, I am not insinuating that anybody around here suggested this)

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#124853: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:26:04 PM

If you're gonna forbid the writing of certain characters out of concern some of the audience may appropriate them as an icon of their personal philosophies, you may as well forbid any media at all from existing.

I recall when Black Panther came out there were people interpreting it as an endorsement of isolationism and/or hereditary rule.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124854: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:29:17 PM

Black Panther misuse hasn't really caught to anywhere close the same degree as Punisher misuse. Calling it an ode to isolationism amounted to one article on Breitbart that got widely mocked and then swiftly forgotten about. Its lifespan was like one week on the Internet. Punisher Misaimed Fandom has been around for nearly the whole history of the character, down to actual insurrectionists in real life proudly displaying his emblem during their attacks.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 7th 2021 at 3:30:17 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#124855: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:30:37 PM

The issue was with some people agreeing with Kill Monger's motivations as I recall

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 7th 2021 at 11:30:56 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124856: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:31:27 PM

Clearly have Punisher be seen killing the alt-right.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#124857: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:37:09 PM

Well he did in Season 2, the main villains were a violent Militia consisting of Ex-Military guys and a wealthy, corrupt Christian-Right Couple.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124859: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:17:19 PM

I can't say I remember the Punisher being a major issue as a fascist symbol before for any kind of activists, although I don't live in the US.

That's another thing, those tend to be domestic problems of the USA, but dumping characters who are known worldwide because of them deprives other countries where such incidents haven't ever been an issue, which doesn't really seem fair either.

In other words, just because the US society can't control their own weirdos and creeps they set global standards of reaction also meant for other societies where those issues don't exist as such.

Like, we don't have school shootings, but because the US does and they can't keep a lid on real gun usage, they still enforce the same ban of contents like, say, Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam blasting at Bugs Bunny with guns on us all, just to state an example.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Feb 7th 2021 at 4:22:19 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124860: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:18:15 PM

When one realizes these 2 are essentially having a dick-measuring context over who was Cap’s bestest friend.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#124861: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:22:23 PM

Man, the amount of AO 3 slash fiction this is gonna inspire.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#124862: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:22:25 PM

Huh, so it seems like Zemo's doubling down on the whole "superheroes need to be destroyed". Definitely towards He Who Fights Monsters territory from what I can see.

Also, holy shit Sharon can fight. That's cool to see.

Seriously, I'm going to subscribe to Disney Plus some point down the line. I missing so much sad .

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#124863: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:22:55 PM

US Agent is going to be very interesting to see.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 7th 2021 at 7:23:18 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#124864: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:28:01 PM

I can't say I remember the Punisher being a major issue as a fascist symbol before for any kind of activists, although I don't live in the US.

The Punisher skull is a major fascist symbol in the Brazilian alt-right. I don't know from which country you're speaking but the fact he's a major fascist symbol in at least two very culturally distinct countries (which don't even share a border) is at bare minimum a indicator there is a problem somewhere. And also that you might just need to get around the block more.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#124865: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:29:04 PM

Man the show looks so good.

Also if this doesn't launch allot of Sam/Bucky fanfiction nothing will.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 7th 2021 at 6:31:55 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#124867: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:41:34 PM

It's a mix of both but it's noticeable they always use the Punisher skull (not the BOPE one).

Regarding the Falcon and Winter Soldier spot: Funny that the first Zemo line basically confirms the discussion we were having aseveral pages back about his motivation. Zemo says his "job is unfinished" so his core ethos didn't change at all with the succeeding events, he just adjusted his mehtods (and worked out that what he did in Civil War obviously didn't work).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124868: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:43:12 PM

A skull is as generic of a death and terror symbol as they come, and it was that way long before the Punisher debuted. It's kind of hard to determine whether it came from him or from anywhere else without more elements tying it to the character's wide lore, which I assume is much easier to asset in the United States.

I'm also going to assume that 'around the block' remark wasn't an attempt of insult to my overall knowledge or intellectual capacity just because I didn't know that particular bit of minutia about Brazilian society.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Feb 7th 2021 at 4:44:03 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#124869: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:47:43 PM

There was also the issue of the NYPD using the symbol in these times where the whole police is under scrutiny for excessive force and racism.

Edited by Blueace on Feb 7th 2021 at 9:48:12 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124870: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:54:10 PM

Punisher does hate cops using his symbol.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#124871: Feb 7th 2021 at 4:55:11 PM

The people from the second 37-39 will probably be Zemo's henchmen.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 7th 2021 at 5:08:41 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#124873: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:11:40 PM

[up]Zemo was rocking that hood before Cobra Commander made it cool.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#124874: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:26:05 PM

Huh, so it seems like Zemo's doubling down on the whole "superheroes need to be destroyed". Definitely towards He Who Fights Monsters territory from what I can see.

So...fracturing the Avengers, ergo leaving Earth (among other planets) wide open for a deluded purple warlord from space to randomly purge half of the population of everything, and having to live with that sudden change in status quo for five years, only for the Avengers to bring back said half of everything did absolutely nothing to change his world view?

Daaaaaaaaaamn.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#124875: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:28:03 PM

It's possible that he's blaming them for all that.


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