Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
![]()
Winter Soldier does keep up the Blood Knight subtext from AOU, with Natasha pointing out how borderline giddy he is when he finds out HYDRA is back.
It's in this scene.
"You seem pretty chipper for someone who just found out they died for nothing."
"Well, guess I just like to know who I'm fighting."
Of course the exchange (and the movie itself) plays it ambiguous if Steve's seemingly renewed spirit (after spending the preceeding half of the movie visibly on the down-low) is because he has his old foe back, because he knows Bucky is alive, because (as he said) he now has a clear sight of what he's doing, or some combination thereof, but the subtext is there.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Yeah. I have to agree. I hate Whedon's take on Cap, but besides the above, the scene with Batroc sticks in my mind. Like Steve wastes time during a mission to have a one-on-one-duel with Batroc, out of a combination of recognizing him as a Worthy Opponent and "playing with his food".
It’s a consistent trait about Steve across Phase 1 and 2. As solid as Civil War is, I feel it would’ve struck a stronger chord on Steve had it honed in said eagerness to keep fighting as his character flaw instead of the one time sin of keeping a secret from Tony. It gives him more of an arc to grow through, in my opinion, instead of letting him off too easily.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 7:26:41 AM
Yeah, Winter Soldier plays that more as him being newly assured and confident now that all the ambiguity is gone and he knows there's a tangible enemy controlling everything. But his actual engagement in the fight he's in doesn't change or become more or less so because of it - he just kind of stays the same about it.
I could buy it if it was played more as a case of Cap being compelled to white knight wherever he could (which is how it comes off moreso in Civil War: he can't not do the right thing even when pursuing it causes trouble for everyone), but Whedon's take on him as someone who literally just seeks out fights because he can't not have something to fight never sat well with me as a character trait for the Cap we actually follow throughout the films, and I was never surprised that the Russo's essentially ignored it.
I actually like that trait because it pretty much means cap have a issue with adapting to civil life write large, is not that he like to fight, but rather he dosent know how not to be a soldier and cant get the idea that someday he will stop being one.
Which is why I dont like his chronic heroism as flaw, it make him seen as more noble than it should be, is very much a sympathic flaw for me.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"It’s a brief exchange in Winter Soldier but I think it’s incredibly telling as to what Cap’s priorities are in an period where where he can’t be sure who to fight for anymore. He can’t name another career.
Hmm, maybe Steve being in that post-Snap support group in Endgame was an attempt to try to live up to Sam’s veteran support effort even if he couldn’t derive real comfort from it.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:12:31 AM
It makes a sorta sense given how the super soldier serum was described. Steve's enthusiasm for fighting the good fight got super soldier amplified.
But if that's going to be a thing it would need to be more of a thing, explored more.
Forever liveblogging the Avengersthey are some stuff of wheedon I like:
For example is ultron taking about Cap, if one take him as tony unfettered, them one have to ask if ultron coment about cap being a lost canon wating for a war to appear and ot being able to be happy at all is exactly what tony really think of him.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"That's not quite what happened.
Banner's research isn't derivative of Erskine supersoldier formula, but rather an aspect of the Army's research into recreating it.
I suspect his gamma research might have been a replacement to whatever the hell Erskine's vita-ray was.
The vita-rays seem to be key in a successful supersoldier (besides the subject having the right traits) going by the failed attempts the movies have show.
Red Skull it would seem only got the serum.
Blonsky at first got extra doses of the serum which was already showing ill effects and then those got kicked into high gear by secondary exposition to gamma radiation.
And Banner's experiments never involved any serum that we know of and just focused on cell regeneration via gamma radiation.
Sean Gunn, the stand-in for Rocket, has appeared in Australia.
So is it safe to put Thor: Love and Thunder under the same label as Civil War as "sequel of a specific hero's story guest-starring other established heroes"?
Because I think we got all the Guardians save for Endgame!Gamora.
So I've been thinking:
How will the MCU handle Jean Grey when she shows up, considering Wanda has kinda taken on her powers (telepathy and Telekinesis) to some extent. Like, are they going to soft retcon how Wanda's powers work so it's more in line with her Probability Altering from the comics?
It's something that's been on my mind recently due to everything going on with Wanda in both the comics and the MCU.
On that note, they could also just have her cut her hair short, go full goth and make her powers cause bad luck to others.
I say don’t use Jean Grey
Or any of the characters they’ve already overused
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThey did Dark Phoenix twice
Let’s let someone else have focus. Storm and Kitty is my suggestion
No Wolverine Logan, no magnetoe, no professor, no mystique, no Jean Grey
Maybe cyclops
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Whedon can have a strength at exploring characters in fascinating ways, but he’s undermined by his own tendency to keep throwing in “just one more” cheap joke one thousand times.
Especially in retrospect of Cap’s ending in Endgame, I would have liked to see more digging into AOU’s suggestion that Steve is perpetually seeking a fight and wouldn’t actually have been satisfied with retiring in the past, but alas the only bit of AOU Steve that anyone remembers is “Language!”
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 3:45:07 AM