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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124526: Jan 23rd 2021 at 3:44:30 PM

Whedon can have a strength at exploring characters in fascinating ways, but he’s undermined by his own tendency to keep throwing in “just one more” cheap joke one thousand times.

Especially in retrospect of Cap’s ending in Endgame, I would have liked to see more digging into AOU’s suggestion that Steve is perpetually seeking a fight and wouldn’t actually have been satisfied with retiring in the past, but alas the only bit of AOU Steve that anyone remembers is “Language!”

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 3:45:07 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#124527: Jan 23rd 2021 at 4:57:00 PM

I'd go as far as to say the first Avengers is just too boring besides the third act.

I actually like AOU better simply because it doesn't feel like the movie is smelling its own farts until the climax and stuff actually happens.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#124528: Jan 23rd 2021 at 6:21:06 PM

[up][up]Winter Soldier does keep up the Blood Knight subtext from AOU, with Natasha pointing out how borderline giddy he is when he finds out HYDRA is back.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#124530: Jan 23rd 2021 at 6:53:27 PM

It's in this scene.

"You seem pretty chipper for someone who just found out they died for nothing."

"Well, guess I just like to know who I'm fighting."

Of course the exchange (and the movie itself) plays it ambiguous if Steve's seemingly renewed spirit (after spending the preceeding half of the movie visibly on the down-low) is because he has his old foe back, because he knows Bucky is alive, because (as he said) he now has a clear sight of what he's doing, or some combination thereof, but the subtext is there.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124531: Jan 23rd 2021 at 7:08:09 PM

Yeah. I have to agree. I hate Whedon's take on Cap, but besides the above, the scene with Batroc sticks in my mind. Like Steve wastes time during a mission to have a one-on-one-duel with Batroc, out of a combination of recognizing him as a Worthy Opponent and "playing with his food".

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124533: Jan 23rd 2021 at 7:22:59 PM

It’s a consistent trait about Steve across Phase 1 and 2. As solid as Civil War is, I feel it would’ve struck a stronger chord on Steve had it honed in said eagerness to keep fighting as his character flaw instead of the one time sin of keeping a secret from Tony. It gives him more of an arc to grow through, in my opinion, instead of letting him off too easily.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 7:26:41 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#124534: Jan 23rd 2021 at 8:03:25 PM

I'm very certain Winter Soldier came before AOU.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124535: Jan 23rd 2021 at 8:05:57 PM

Shield was defunct and Fury in hiding by AOU.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#124536: Jan 23rd 2021 at 8:59:58 PM

Of course the exchange (and the movie itself) plays it ambiguous if Steve's seemingly renewed spirit (after spending the preceeding half of the movie visibly on the down-low) is because he has his old foe back, because he knows Bucky is alive, because (as he said) he now has a clear sight of what he's doing, or some combination thereof, but the subtext is there.

Yeah, Winter Soldier plays that more as him being newly assured and confident now that all the ambiguity is gone and he knows there's a tangible enemy controlling everything. But his actual engagement in the fight he's in doesn't change or become more or less so because of it - he just kind of stays the same about it.

I could buy it if it was played more as a case of Cap being compelled to white knight wherever he could (which is how it comes off moreso in Civil War: he can't not do the right thing even when pursuing it causes trouble for everyone), but Whedon's take on him as someone who literally just seeks out fights because he can't not have something to fight never sat well with me as a character trait for the Cap we actually follow throughout the films, and I was never surprised that the Russo's essentially ignored it.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#124537: Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:07:10 PM

I actually like that trait because it pretty much means cap have a issue with adapting to civil life write large, is not that he like to fight, but rather he dosent know how not to be a soldier and cant get the idea that someday he will stop being one.

Which is why I dont like his chronic heroism as flaw, it make him seen as more noble than it should be, is very much a sympathic flaw for me.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124538: Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:11:39 PM

It’s a brief exchange in Winter Soldier but I think it’s incredibly telling as to what Cap’s priorities are in an period where where he can’t be sure who to fight for anymore. He can’t name another career.

Hmm, maybe Steve being in that post-Snap support group in Endgame was an attempt to try to live up to Sam’s veteran support effort even if he couldn’t derive real comfort from it.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:12:31 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124539: Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:20:19 PM

It makes a sorta sense given how the super soldier serum was described. Steve's enthusiasm for fighting the good fight got super soldier amplified.

But if that's going to be a thing it would need to be more of a thing, explored more.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#124540: Jan 23rd 2021 at 10:13:44 PM

they are some stuff of wheedon I like:

For example is ultron taking about Cap, if one take him as tony unfettered, them one have to ask if ultron coment about cap being a lost canon wating for a war to appear and ot being able to be happy at all is exactly what tony really think of him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#124541: Jan 23rd 2021 at 10:46:34 PM

[up][up] And since the Hulk in this continuity was derived from the supersolider serum, presumably it hyped up Bruce's anger issues the same way.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#124542: Jan 24th 2021 at 12:20:59 AM

That's not quite what happened.

Banner's research isn't derivative of Erskine supersoldier formula, but rather an aspect of the Army's research into recreating it.

I suspect his gamma research might have been a replacement to whatever the hell Erskine's vita-ray was.

The vita-rays seem to be key in a successful supersoldier (besides the subject having the right traits) going by the failed attempts the movies have show.

Red Skull it would seem only got the serum.

Blonsky at first got extra doses of the serum which was already showing ill effects and then those got kicked into high gear by secondary exposition to gamma radiation.

And Banner's experiments never involved any serum that we know of and just focused on cell regeneration via gamma radiation.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#124543: Jan 24th 2021 at 12:49:35 AM

The Avengers and Incredible Hulk make it clear Banner was trying to replicate the serum, however Ross mentions Banner didn't really know that because Ross didn't tell him.

Banner thought he was just working on an anti-rad drug, which is why he tested it on himself.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#124544: Jan 24th 2021 at 7:58:34 AM

Sean Gunn, the stand-in for Rocket, has appeared in Australia.

So is it safe to put Thor: Love and Thunder under the same label as Civil War as "sequel of a specific hero's story guest-starring other established heroes"?

Because I think we got all the Guardians save for Endgame!Gamora.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#124545: Jan 24th 2021 at 8:24:59 AM

I suppose it sort of depends how much of a role they have in it.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#124546: Jan 24th 2021 at 8:29:34 AM

I feel like they’d just show up in the first scene, and then the stinger would lead into Guardians 3.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#124547: Jan 24th 2021 at 11:00:26 AM

So I've been thinking:

How will the MCU handle Jean Grey when she shows up, considering Wanda has kinda taken on her powers (telepathy and Telekinesis) to some extent. Like, are they going to soft retcon how Wanda's powers work so it's more in line with her Probability Altering from the comics?

It's something that's been on my mind recently due to everything going on with Wanda in both the comics and the MCU.

On that note, they could also just have her cut her hair short, go full goth and make her powers cause bad luck to others.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124548: Jan 24th 2021 at 11:49:19 AM

I say don’t use Jean Grey

Or any of the characters they’ve already overused

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#124549: Jan 24th 2021 at 11:51:35 AM

The Fox-Men wasted a lot of characters, really. So seeing some repeats would be pretty good.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124550: Jan 24th 2021 at 11:56:13 AM

They did Dark Phoenix twice

Let’s let someone else have focus. Storm and Kitty is my suggestion

No Wolverine Logan, no magnetoe, no professor, no mystique, no Jean Grey

Maybe cyclops

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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