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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#124351: Jan 14th 2021 at 3:42:45 PM

[up]x3

Most leader's in such roles in the Marvel Universe shady jerks, it only varies on how big of a jerk they are.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124352: Jan 14th 2021 at 11:40:32 PM

Huh here’s something random.

It’s hard reading a comic with Thanos in it, to hear Brolin’s voice. Like the characters are of very different temperaments, Comic-Thanos is very aggressive and prone to screaming his lines while Film-Thanos is more calm and speaks in a lower tone.

So when I’m reading Thanos’s line since I’m not used to hearing Brolin screaming, it’s harder to imagine what he would sound like and the end result in my head just sounds off.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#124353: Jan 15th 2021 at 10:31:53 AM

On the subject of Captain America related things, thanks to a leaked toy, it appears we have the first look at Sam Wilson's Captain America outfit from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

Assuming it's real, of course.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124354: Jan 15th 2021 at 11:26:43 AM

Damn thats accurate to the comics.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#124355: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:06:44 PM

[up][up][up] I get that feeling sometimes, too. I feel the same way about Mark Hamill and the Joker, for example.

I know lots of people say they hear Mark whenever they read the Joker, but I've always found it difficult to do so for stories made since the 90's because the kind of theatricality Mark was emulating in his performance hasn't been present in the character in the comics for decades.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 15th 2021 at 2:07:02 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#124357: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:41:55 PM

Watched the first episode of WandaVision.

...well, this was...unsettling.

Does it have a specific thread? I can't find it.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jan 15th 2021 at 7:42:56 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124358: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:44:11 PM

Was Arthur in the second episode? I don’t remember seeing him after the first.

I guess Sy Ableman really did die offscreen in a car crash. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 15th 2021 at 2:44:27 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124359: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:49:53 PM

[up][up] Edit: Yes there is one.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16107505280A84247900&page=1

Also damn, I looked over everything Thanos says in both IF & End. Crazy thing, he never gets angry. Like he yells in pain but he never outright says a line in a furious emotion.

Everything he says is in that same low soft tone. Thanos has never raised his voice in either film.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 15th 2021 at 3:04:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#124360: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:57:31 PM

He did shout at Ronan in Guardians, iirc.

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124361: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:58:38 PM

Red Skull is much more subdued in the movies too, compared to the ever sneering, volatile walking powderkeg of hatred he is in the comics.

Ultron too, come to think about it. His case is not as extreme, but he's certainly much louder and hammier in the comics.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124363: Jan 15th 2021 at 3:58:18 PM

I remembered that scene not going that far (the fact I watched the movie dubbed to my language might have helped), but still, yeah, Comics! Skull has done far worse.

The Marvel Comics line has two main inspirators for villain writing, Stan Lee and then (more arguably) Chris Claremont, and neither of them was exactly subtle with how they wrote dialogue.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#124364: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:06:12 PM

Speaking of Thanos's lines, it's crazy how almost every single line of dialogue out of his mouth has become a meme of some kind.

I think they succeeded at creating a Darth Vader for a new generation, as far as pop cultural impact goes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#124365: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:09:42 PM

Whose Ethan Hawke playing ?

Moon knight doesn't really have much of rogues gallery. His Arch enemy and most iconic foe is Bushman whose uh black. So I doubt that would be played by Ethan.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#124366: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:11:55 PM

Comic book Red Skull is fully blown nazi,he's near enough to be the embodiment of Evil

The movies play down the nazi aspect because surprise surprise nazis are a hard sell to with film audiences or something,I remember them being very candid when they admitted this

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 15th 2021 at 12:12:28 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#124367: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:14:59 PM

.....Isn't He the main villain though.

Nazis that get their ass kicked is a proud cinema tradition dating back even to world war 2.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#124368: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:19:41 PM

IIRC the exact wording was something along the lines of "You can't sell Burger King toys of Nazis".

Basically, what they were getting at was that more explicitly making the bad guys Nazis would have essentially made the film a bit more...adult if you will or looked like they were making light of the Nazis.

Going back to the example they give: it would likely be very hard to convince Burger King that they should hand out toys of Waffen SS members.

Leviticus 19:34
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124369: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:30:27 PM

You don't have to make a villain a Nazi for them to be completely evil (though it always helps!), the fact that Comics!Skull is even more outrageous in behavior compared to his film counterpart isn't directly related to his Nazism, and Comics!Skull has lost whatever faith he ever had on Nazism and is just a total nihilist now anyway.

It's more like, well, Comics!Skull is much more verbose as hes always giving these pompous rants on how his hatred fuels him and yadda yadda. Again, that's an artifact from him coming from the Simon/Kirby days, and then the Stan Lee reinventions, back when villains were much more in-your-face and theatrical about their villainy.

Just compare Lee's Magneto to Claremont's, even if the latter, as I said above, also was very verbous in a different way, that of constantly questioning his nature and torturing himself over it, rather than embracing it with imaginary moustache-twirling gusto like his Silver Age self.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Jan 15th 2021 at 4:31:15 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#124370: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:50:01 PM

I remember some reviews at the time pointed out how odd it was that X-Men: First Class had a more explicit Nazi as a villain despite being set in the '60s than Captain America: The First Avenger did.

It's a complicated issue. The Red Skull's ties to Nazi Germany are still there, so it's not like it's completely whitewashing him or anything. You can still call him a Nazi and be accurate. There was also a tie-in comic made for the film that showed Schmidt being more hands-on with the organization, such as participating in the Night of the Long Knives and sending Erskine's family to a concentration camp.

Also, I just realized that the first Captain America movie is going to turn 10 years old this year. o_O

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 15th 2021 at 7:50:58 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#124371: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:56:03 PM

[up] Likely because in X-Men, there was only one major Nazi villain whereas in Captain America, you had an army of Nazis, likely to be sold as toys for your Captain America action figure to fight against.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#124372: Jan 15th 2021 at 5:22:08 PM

[up][up]The passage of time claims us all, in the end. smile

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#124373: Jan 16th 2021 at 12:46:20 AM

I remember some reviews at the time pointed out how odd it was that X-Men: First Class had a more explicit Nazi as a villain despite being set in the '60s than Captain America: The First Avenger did.

Back before IMDB shut down its forums, I had one particular argument against a poster who claimed the Captain America movies were better because they weren't "exploiting the Holocaust" by having explicit Nazi villains.

I wish I was kidding.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#124374: Jan 16th 2021 at 2:00:39 AM

[up] And that's downright harmless compared to some of the stuff I've seen.

Long story short, don't ever look for the comment section in any fictional Nazi-related video (which includes X-Men in this case). You'll ALWAYS stumble upon Holocaust-denying jackasses. Really, that should be the new Godwin's Law.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#124375: Jan 16th 2021 at 3:34:34 AM

[up][up] I mean, you can disagree with the opinion, but I see where it's coming from.

Both First Class and The First Avenger have main villains who are former Nazis (in both cases, the bad guys cut ties with the Nazis early on to pursue their own megalomania). However, while The First Avenger is focused on the Western Front of the European Theatre, and thus at a remove from the Holocaust, First Class makes its hammy, superpowered, scenery chewing baddie the commandant of a death camp, and includes scenes of him performing scientific experiments on Jewish prisoners. Given that the movie is, overall, a colorful popcorn adventure flick, and that said baddie is meant to be over-the-top and fun to watch, those early scenes can be seen as a disrespectful use of a real life tragedy.


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