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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#124076: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:31:52 AM

the solution is to turn them into children so they stop acting like children

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124077: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:32:34 AM

I think that’s how the story those panels were from resolved

Reed and Hank get stuck in a paradox room while fighting over the thing and eventually Reed sees Hank’s side of the argument

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#124078: Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:04:44 AM

Picturing Hank getting revenge by putting an ant in Reed’s morning breakfast.

Reed finds a note saying “tomorrow there will be another ant.”

Reed doesn’t sleep that night.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:05:03 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#124079: Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:16:13 AM

Reed responds with an magnify glass and sunlight..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124080: Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:20:52 AM

Or he bribes the ants to turn against Hank by buying a bottle of pancake syrup.

Disgusted, but not surprised
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#124081: Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:53:31 AM

Or the notes says that he made an ant bust a circuit of one of his machines, and waste all his day tryin to find which one, only to not finding it, driving him crazy.

Which was the plan all along, as Hank lied and Richards will never find out.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124082: Dec 23rd 2020 at 8:55:26 AM

Reed retaliates by engineering a species of super antlions.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124083: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:00:45 AM

I don’t think Hank would mind

His helmet lets him communicate with all insects

He just likes ants best

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124084: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:02:08 AM

Reed would ensure that these antlions hate Hank Pym.

Besides, it's not like Hank has luck with all arthropods - a giant spider demon ate him.

Edit:

Going back to the movies, I doubt Movie!Hank will have any (more) issues with Reed Richards than he would with most people. Which is to say Movie!Hank would still be kind of an insufferable jackass to him.

Edited by M84 on Dec 24th 2020 at 1:03:53 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#124085: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:04:40 AM

[up][up][up] Wouldn't that make Hank more powerful? He would engineer them to be intelligent so that Hank cound't control them ([nja]'d before I could post tongue)... but as ants are asshole, they would go all world domination:

Which would be good, actually, as they would then have to let their diferences aside and fight them together now.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124086: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:06:17 AM

[up]I said antlions, not ants.

Edited by M84 on Dec 24th 2020 at 1:06:43 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#124087: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:44:04 AM

  • googles it*

Oh... welp, that's my (english) word of the day for me. tongue

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#124088: Dec 23rd 2020 at 10:43:06 AM

Wonder what wrong side of the bed he got up on that day he got into an argument with Hank Pym

I've always both loved and disliked that argument. Loved because it's awesome, and it doesn't skew towards slamming either one or the other like some of the comics' big contention moments with Hank do - they're both being assholes and they both look worse for getting into it like that.

One the other hand, it's the Marvel Universe drawing direct attention to the fact that the history of its "supergenius" characters is one long list of terrible if not monstrous decisions and actions that would hurt scores of people but which they were then Easily Forgiven for, because of the nature of comic books to go back to the status quo, something imo they shouldn't do so much. Them bringing up Clor especially stings, since Reed condescendingly brings up that Hank might be unstable after Bill's death, Hank retorts (paraphrased) "I'm not the one who went on a power trip and freakin' killed him!" (referring to Tony), and it's just treated like a petty argument.

I still think that Tony building Clor, unleashing it on his friends and directly getting Bill Foster killed should have been more of a big deal in Civil War and the immediately subsequent media than it was. I don't mind it being swept under the rug (because again, that's just how comic books work), but even at the time it was treated like your average C-List Fodder when Tony straight built a superweapon that killed one of his friends. It should've been the turning point of the whole thing, but that ended up coming later.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 23rd 2020 at 10:44:00 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#124089: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:50:37 PM

That scene just comes across as a character being disrespected due to their infamy or lack of popularity compared to other characters. Like how Roy Harper is often flanderized into an unlikable moron when he's with a Bat character.

Movie Hank already has a petty and irrational grudge with Howard Stark. I don't think he'll have one against Reed and if he does, Reed can just respond with a "Who are you?" as Tony did to Scott.

I still think that Tony building Clor, unleashing it on his friends and directly getting Bill Foster killed should have been more of a big deal in Civil War and the immediately subsequent media than it was. I don't mind it being swept under the rug (because again, that's just how comic books work), but even at the time it was treated like your average C-List Fodder when Tony straight built a superweapon that killed one of his friends. It should've been the turning point of the whole thing, but that ended up coming later.

Popularity means never having to face accountability.

Edited by windleopard on Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:51:38 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124090: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:53:31 PM

Makes me feel bad for Batman because at times everyone just shits on him for things that aren't even his fault.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124091: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:57:29 PM

If you think about it Clor was way worse than Salvation-1

Hank only attempted to kill all his friends to make them like him again and he didn’t violate anyone’s genetic autonomy to do it

Reed and Tony actually succeeded in killing a friend

Reed got almost zero fallout except Sue spending very little time apart from him. Tony got beat up by everyone as the scapegoat for the whole event

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124093: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:03:44 PM

Ya know its funny how Reed can avoid responsibility when he's not as popular or high profile as Tony or Carol.

Tony's among the most popular Marvel heroes now and Carol is heavily invested by Marvel so they both avoid responsibility for any horrid actions. Meanwhile FF got the major shaft for a while due to the movie rights thing and the negative-receptions of their existing movies.

Yet he gets a safety net like the both of them.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#124094: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:08:46 PM

The Fantastic Four still have some clout as Marvel's "First Family" and Reed has some protection as their patriarch.

Aside from Civil War 2 - which everyone, including many writers, would like to forget - Carol has a pretty spotless track record.

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124095: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:14:26 PM

The Fantastic Four were born from Reed recklessly pulling them all into an untested ship for a trip into the unknown which mutated them all and turned one of them into a hideous rock creature.

The three have been putting up with Reed's actions since pretty much Day One, if they were the type to blow him out over there they'd have done it before the franchise even got its footing. It's sort of part of the premise, and fits all the characters to a degree; Ben's got the patience and tolerance of a saint all things considered, Sue loves Reed all too dearly, and Johnny is kinda stupid enough to not know better and he's taken the least amount of damage from his association with Richards anyway (I mean, Sue lost a child because of her radiation absortion, after all).

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#124096: Dec 23rd 2020 at 9:29:23 PM

So, got a relative with a theory that the real villain of WandaVision is Mojo.

I do admit, the entire premise does kinda reek of said character's MO. The only catch is that even before she got retconned out of being both Magneto's daughter and a mutant, Wanda has always been kinda disconnected from the X-franchise, and as far as I know, barring a few exceptions (that weird Spiderman / Wolverine mini where there were being tossed through time, which was revealed to be due to Mojo, and then later on, the Spiderman and the Xmen comic where Peter became teacher at the school after Logan's death because the latter wanted him to find a potential traitor) Mojo has always been a pure X-villain as far as I know. That being said, maybe this might lead to some branching out for Mojo if the theory is right. What do you guys think?

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#124097: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:33:12 AM

@ windleopard

Don't forget Carol brutally arresting Julia Carpenter in front of her daughter during the first Civil War and basically getting an orgasm seeing Skrull's suffocate in Secret Invasion, just on top of my head.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#124098: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:38:27 AM

[up][up]Not convinced. Nothing we've seen so far couldn't honestly be caused by Wanda's own powers and a bout of instability, Occam's Razor suggests that she's responsible rather than any third party.

Mojo was more about gladiators or gameshows than sitcoms anyway IIRC.

Edited by jakobitis on Dec 24th 2020 at 10:38:51 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124099: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:51:12 AM

Well this would be MCU Mojo so he could be more interested in sitcoms or going through an experimental phase. tongue

[up][up] Well Carol does have a brutish air to her.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 24th 2020 at 2:51:50 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#124100: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:58:18 AM

Julia attacked Carol first. She even says that she wanted her daughter to see her fighting Carol. And this was after Julia caused an accident trying to escape Carol. To say nothing of her being a double agent for the anti-reg side.

Their was a recurring theme of the pro-reg faction trying to extend the olive branch or deescalate tension and the anti-reg faction responding with hostility, violence and spite. Julia is the one who instigates the fight with Carol yet it's Carol who gets blamed when the only reason Julia's daughter was present at the scene was because Julia wanted her there.

The Skrull thing is creepy I'll give you but that's a case of What Measure Is a Non-Human? which plenty of Marvel and DC heroes have had.

Edited by windleopard on Dec 24th 2020 at 2:59:00 AM


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