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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#124051: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:38:37 PM

Basically, Reed would degrade eventually into a detached sociopath without the other three. They are his anchor to humanity, with Ben playing that role back all the way through school, even.

That's also why Doom is so effective as a dark mirror of Reed, because he is a Reed left alone to his own devices until his character flaws consume him. That's also the point of The Maker, come to think about it.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:40:54 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124052: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:53:15 PM

Well that makes sense.

The Ultimate universe made the characters effectively meaning Reed was left without proper anchors because his friends lacked strong enough moral fiber.

Ironically the Ultimate Power crossover had him be extremely regretful and willing to do whatever to make up for causing immense damage to the Supreme Power universe.

Guess Ultimate Reed just had enough of everyone.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#124053: Dec 22nd 2020 at 6:24:24 PM

And then he became a huge sociopath after he jumped off the slippery slope. It is interesting. The dude has never looked back and fully went onto become a monster through and through.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124054: Dec 22nd 2020 at 6:25:39 PM

The Ultimate Oh Shit The Real Galactus Is Here, Everyone Hide the Beer arc had the Maker become regretful and foreshadow a heel face turn to 180 his initial face heel turn when he realized that 616 Reed had Family.

Didn't stick.

Then again there was another story where Future Sue pretended to be Kang to try to get Sue and Reed to fuck. For the good of the universe and her boring Friday evenings probably.

Edited by Bocaj on Dec 22nd 2020 at 9:25:58 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#124055: Dec 22nd 2020 at 6:42:10 PM

It’s prolly fitting that Maker is a member of the Council of Reed’s who have all given up attachment to their families.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#124056: Dec 23rd 2020 at 1:14:39 AM

Basically, Reed would degrade eventually into a detached sociopath without the other three. They are his anchor to humanity, with Ben playing that role back all the way through school, even.

Didn't Bojack Horseman deconstruct this trope by pointing out how the person serving as the "anchor" is essentially held hostage?

Edited by windleopard on Dec 23rd 2020 at 1:15:48 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124057: Dec 23rd 2020 at 1:20:57 AM

Ultimate Reed Richards had other problems besides his friends being alienated from him.

Also, note that Ben always stood by Reed in the Ultimate verse and was the last to finally acknowledge that Reed was evil.

616 Reed's issue isn't so much an empathy problem as it is a tendency to go into The Madness Place. His tendency to get lost in his own thoughts to pursue SCIENCE! has caused problems - most notably the experimental flight into space that mutated the Four in the first place.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 5:26:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#124058: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:38:17 AM

Didn't Bojack Horseman deconstruct this trope by pointing out how the person serving as the "anchor" is essentially held hostage?

Er.....

Yeah, well, BoJack isn't an established world-renowned genius, now is he?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124059: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:40:42 AM

No but back in the 90s he was on a very famous tv shoooow

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124060: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:42:30 AM

Also, it's not that Reed would become a sociopathic piece of shit without the other three.

It's that a Reed who would be willing to toss them aside for SCIENCE! is already a sociopathic piece of shit.

That is what the Maker is. He's not a Reed who went bad because the other three distanced themselves from him. He's a Reed who decided they weren't as important as his desire to play God.

616 Reed doesn't have the best social skills, but he does understand that it's important to take care of the people he loves and who love him. 616 Reed ultimately will always put his family and friends first. This is what separates him from his evil alternates and evil counterparts like Victor.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 10:46:00 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#124061: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:47:21 AM

It's that a Reed who would be willing to toss them aside for SCIENCE! is already a sociopathic piece of shit.

That is what the Maker is. He's not a Reed who went bad because the other three distanced themselves from him. He's a Reed who decided they weren't as important as his desire to play God.

Funny thing about that first sentence, it could either describe The Maker or Richard Impossible from The Venture Bros. Heck, I think the latter actually predates The Maker?

(Man, I miss that show...)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:47:42 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124062: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:52:06 AM

616 Reed also usually is able to admit when he fucks up and takes responsibility for said fuck ups. He pretty much went mea culpa after the accident that transformed the Four. He felt particularly bad about what happened to Ben because not only was Ben hit the worst by it since his transformation is permanent unlike the others', Ben warned him against the flight in the first place.

The whole reason Reed decided to make them into the Fantastic Four is because he knew he had robbed them of any chance of having normal lives, so he figured he should give them lives as a superhero celebrity team.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 10:52:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124063: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:53:31 AM

While the Maker has since leaned into the gleefully card carrying supervillainy, one of his motives to going bad was to finally cure Ben which he did manage to do.

The Maker initially was more of what happens when Reed Richards gets fed up with Reed Richards being useless

Then again he also killed his family just to cover his tracks so he’s also an asshole

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124064: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:54:56 AM

[up]

hen again he also killed his family just to cover his tracks so he’s also an asshole

Hence the "already a sociopathic piece of shit" part of my post.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 10:55:22 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#124065: Dec 23rd 2020 at 6:57:15 AM

If Tony is about his personal contributions and Victor about his ego, Reed is about the science. He will happily work in a group, share credit, and help out others if it means science goes further than it would without him. Reed shouldn’t be a sociopath or a Jerkass. He should be the guy so jacked up on science his lack of selfish behavior confuses the hell out of his colleagues (and something Victor cannot wrap his head around). He needs his friends to ground him, assuredly, but he doesn’t want to do anything actively malicious.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124067: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:02:02 AM

[up][up]Like I said, Reed's flaw is that he gets a bit too caught up in The Madness Place.

[up]I guess Reed just plain doesn't like Hank.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 11:04:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#124068: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:03:53 AM

Then again, Reed is so smart and so into science that when he goes all out and makes a mistake, boy is it not pretty.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124069: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:04:55 AM

[up]Ben can attest to that. His Thing form certainly isn't conventionally attractive.

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 11:05:12 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#124070: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:09:28 AM

And that’s how the Baxter building got chock full of ants

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#124071: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:13:16 AM

You know, I wouldn't mind seeing the "Ocean Eleven.... but with ants!!" In a D+ series crossover between Ant-Man and F4.

Man, I can already picture Michael Douglas saying "It's on, bitch".

Edited by eligram on Dec 23rd 2020 at 11:15:01 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124072: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:15:01 AM

[up]Wasn't that pretty much the plot of the first Ant-Man movie? "A Heist...with ANTS!"

Edited by M84 on Dec 23rd 2020 at 11:15:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#124073: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:17:21 AM

More like "Mission Impossible, with ants!", but you have to admit the idea is way better not only againts another hero, but also the most intelligent man in the world.

Edited by eligram on Dec 23rd 2020 at 11:20:40 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#124074: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:27:54 AM

How long before the other three and Scott decide to just lock Reed and Hank in some room to resolve their petty science squabble?

Or maybe knock them out since that could end with half of New York shrunk or in another dimension.

Edited by Blueace on Dec 23rd 2020 at 12:28:32 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#124075: Dec 23rd 2020 at 7:30:56 AM

Eh, Hank in the comics is a bit too busy being dead and having his soul digested by a demon spider.

Hank in the comics is not a fortunate man.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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