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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I say there's some attempt to humanize Ultron beyond his quips and tantrums. There's his connection to the Maximoffs and how he seems genuinely hurt by their betrayal. It's like he desperately wants to have some connection with another person, which is probably why he keeps Natasha alive after he kidnaps her. "I wasn't sure you'd wake up. I hoped you would, I wanted to show you something. I don't have anyone else." There's a twinge of melancholy to Spader's performance here, and you can see the hint of something more to his character in bits like this and his final scene with Vision.
I just kind of wish there was a bit more focus with the character and his motives. It's all over the map.
I think what struck me most about him is this line when he captured Black Widow.
"I was meant to be new, I was meant to be beautiful. The world would have looked to the sky and seen hope."
The implication that he is self-aware of how utterly flawed he is and it gives him an immense feeling of self-loathing adds a good amount of tragedy to the character.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."So I guess rage, pride, & a terrible sense of humor is all you need to make a human. ![]()
He did have access to internet...
I assure you, I'm perfectly trustable personThe first one had low enough stakes and less Protection from Editors so it was still pretty enjoyable.
I re-watched the first one last year. It's...aged in areas and has been outdone by various subsequent entries, but it's still pretty good, especially for the time and as a capping off of what Phase 1 was setting up. It might be the "best" of the Avengers movies by far, thinking it over.
Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Dec 19th 2020 at 10:44:06 AM
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)I rewatched it recently as well. It was alright. I liked the actual evacuation of civilians being backed by SHIELD.
That being said, the "prima nocta" crack really did not age well, and Quicksilver's death just being ignored by the entire cast was just weird for me.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrI think the very first point I started noticing the problems with the first two Avengers movies was with the "he's adopted" joke from the first one. It's a laugh out loud moment, but literally the moment you start thinking about it starts feeling wrong: it's not something Thor would actually say, and coming off of Thor's own movie and his history with Loki it actually comes off as rather awful on his lips - as if the character is speaking what the writers' considered funny rather than in their own voice.
Once I realized that I started noticing that that's everywhere in Whedon's Marvel movies. And not just for the sake of being funny, but for the sake of being cool or epic and referential and so on or so forth, the characters will just do or say or believe whatever. The best description I remember hearing about him was that he a guy who films to moments: funny moments, epic moments, whatever, with everything about about getting from one moment that makes the theatre laugh or whoop or whatever to another.
I had a similar feeling with the "that's not a party" joke from Natasha as well, particularly since she was usually characterized as someone with more self-awareness than that.
Whedon ends up subsuming characterization for the sake of jokes that don't always land, and often to the detriment of the writing.
I'd argue it's not too far removed on the quality scale from Batman v Superman. Which I don't even really hate - same with AOU (which I know some people here REALLY fucking loathe, this and BVS) - but objectively that's kind of a crippling insult honestly. That one also happens to fall into the same sort of trap with the Avengers movies with regards to some neat, perhaps even really good bits, casting, shots and action scenes that, when strung together as a whole movie, feel deflated and hollow in terms of substance. I'd obviously take any of those over BVS (and especially over Justice League, a good case of two negatives NOT making a positive even if they're only partly to blame), but I feel safe calling them solid concentrations of a lot of what's wrong with this franchise. But that's all IMO obviously.
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)She-Hulk Will Be a Half-Hour Legal Comedy Series
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My fairest take on Whedon's characterization problems is that even though he started in film, nowadays he has a tendency to writes like he's writing network tv due to his years in that medium: that is, primarily just making sure the characters are distinctly (if occasionally homogenously) charismatic so that the audience can have fun with them, and then slowly if occasionally filling in substance and depth through brief bits of drama later down the line.
Likewise, he's the kind of guy who sometimes tends towards leaning on big things to give characters depth when he wants to (which another think typical of writing network tv). Stuff like giving Widow a big "I turns out I can't have kids and my upbringing made me think I'm a monster!" scene and figuring that's all the focus she needs, vs just generally writing her in more nuanced way (I'm always reminded of his maligned pitch for a Batgirl movie, where he felt the need to give Barbara Gordon a horrific trauma to motivate her into being a heroine). Compare Widow's best movie appearances, in TWS or other Russo films, where she's not always necessarily a main character but is so good because her character comes across well just in general conversation.
Across his career, his best characters were the result of years of constant development. But in individual projects, you get those problems because he focuses on making them cool and funny first, and doesn't insert character development or depth especially well.
That said, his work on Banner (at least, in Avengers 1) was fantastic and is something I will freely admit is an exception.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 19th 2020 at 4:14:22 AM