Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
“I just think that Black Widow would look good with spider legs is all” - Ultron
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYa know on further thought, at least with Pym generally the creation of Ultron would ultimately define & haunt him forever as it should because this is the biggest mistake of his life.
Tony on the other hand doesn’t seem particularly bothered by the fact he created a hyper-intelligent super strong AI, to the point of creating another hyper-intelligent super strong AI to fight the previous one. He only started feeling any sort of actual regret for his actions in Civil War.
Edited by slimcoder on Dec 19th 2020 at 2:07:57 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Late, but I just wanna say that I find "emotionally compromised metal human who tries to pretend he's a flawless, calculating machine" is much more interesting an antagonist than "actually is a flawless, calculating machine".
Ultron's emotional vulnerabilities are simultaneously a humanizing element and the cause of his villainy. Without it he'd just be a boring force of nature like a tornado or a tsunami.
Age of Ultron as a film has many flaws but Ultron's characterization and Spader's performance therein aren't part of that. At least in my opinion.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Ha ha comic Ultron sure leans towards that second one
Until he fused with dad
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYeah. While I'm still totally fine with the movie, this seems to have been the film that totally broke his credibility with...well everyone.
Cause we all still love the OG Avengers film, but I'm guessing the criticisms many have for AOU get levied at this as well.
One Strip! One Strip!That would be random and not make much sense.
And if he were to get a power up, it would make far more sense that to go with the version of Abomination introduced in Immortal Hulk.
◊
Edited by Cortez on Dec 19th 2020 at 6:55:30 AM
I'm not sure how much of the film's issues were with Whedon or with the executives, although it seems to be an even mix of both. From what I can recall, Whedon wanted the film to be more down-to-earth and emotional, which you can see the most during the scenes at the Barton farm. But Marvel wanted something bigger and more intense, hence the big international set-pieces and all the foreshadowing to later films. So, some questionable ideas came from that clash (such as Thor's random quest to learn about the Infinity Stones) and others were probably Whedon's ideas to begin with (such the Bruce/Natasha romance).
I think Ultron went evil simply because he was Bruce and Tony's first draft of a world-protecting AI. No one expects a first draft to be perfect.
Had things gone according to plan, Ultron's creation would have been followed by a long period of examination, where various flaws and instabilities in its programming would be found, with the code tweaked or patched as needed to create something that worked as intended. Unfortunately, Ultron escaped the lab almost immediately, before all that fine-tuning could be done. He's like a shoddily made anti-virus program that tries to delete your operating system.
Edited by RavenWilder on Dec 19th 2020 at 2:52:50 AM
Even if the process itself is rather reckless, I actually really appreciate the narrative having them try again with Vision and succeeding.
I've always hated those "this particular science experiment ended in disaster, so we must deem this field of technology evil forever and bury it in the annals of human history" morals. Technology should be improved, not discarded.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I mean I've said it before, while Age Of Ultron was definitely Darker and Edgier it was not to the extent that the trailers made it out to be. And I felt like the movie would've been stronger if it had been. Like if the tone had been more like Winter Soldier or Civil War, I wouldn't have had a problem, but at time I felt like the characters were just quipping so much, when it would have been better to let tension build. Like for example late in the movie Thor is confronting one of Ultron's bodies and gives a big speech which ends with "I am running out of things to say" and then the body is destroyed out of nowhere by Vision. I feel like that would have still worked without the joke at the end. Like he gives a big speech and the body is destroyed out of nowhere, while he's making a dramatic speech; that still works and is surprising.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 19th 2020 at 6:04:41 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midWhedon has a underlying problem in that he has explicitly said that his idea for the Avengers is that they're unbeatable once they assemble and nothing can really stand up against them, so the villains get by on their general lack of coordination rather than an actual threat. This worked well for the Avengers's introductory film (given it's basically establishing them as a team), but in AOU it gets pretty farcical.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Joss Whedon was into subverting expectations when it was still fresh and before it just became unsatisfying.
Ultron's emotional vulnerabilities are simultaneously a humanizing element and the cause of his villainy. Without it he'd just be a boring force of nature like a tornado or a tsunami.
Age of Ultron as a film has many flaws but Ultron's characterization and Spader's performance therein aren't part of that. At least in my opinion.
See, that's the thing. Ultron doesn't come off as particularly human, at least imo. He doesn't have humanlike responses to things, nor do his decisions make sense as something a human being can do - even an emotionally traumatized one.
I've always perceived that as kind of being on Whedon, because for a very long time Whedon has come off as believing that just being sarcastic and having the occasional brief emotional meltdown is all you need to be relateable to a human audience. The flaws in Ultron's charcater are things I'm used to seeing happen when Whedon is at the helm (and it's a problem both Avengers movies have, tbh), and because of that I've never really bought the take that Ultron is a particularly human bad guy.
He's certainly an imitation of humanity, but lacks emotion beyond "angry and wants to kill everything," which he would have had even if he was a flawless, calculating machine.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 19th 2020 at 4:02:30 AM
Maybe he was just trying to avoid making another Adam?
Well, you're not right but you're not wrong...
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 19th 2020 at 4:05:31 AM

I just realized something.
We’re okay with one Tony Stark, but 2 Tony Starks is just too fucking much.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."