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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123951: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:50:02 AM

Ultimo's thing is more being a weapon controlled by others anyway. Even at his most autonomous (which is rare), he's more like AUTO from Wall-E: malevolent, but a servant of his programming at the end of the day.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 19th 2020 at 11:50:12 AM

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123952: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:50:27 AM

Maybe Radioactive Man can be composited into Abomination's character, by giving the latter a power-up.

Trope Editor (he/him)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123953: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:51:02 AM

Oh I don't get me wrong I don't like the weird characterisation they went with mcu ultron. I like spader but I do think voice he was a bad choice for ultron in particular.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#123954: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:51:04 AM

In the latest issue of Emmy magazine, Kevin Feige confirms Chadwick Boseman recorded several episodes of What If? before his passing.

Edited by comicwriter on Dec 19th 2020 at 11:57:06 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#123955: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:52:06 AM

I actually rather like the MCU version of Ultron. Spader is great in the role to me, and I wish they would bring him back personally.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 19th 2020 at 1:53:44 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123956: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:52:22 AM

Bittersweet now. At least well get to see more of him even if it's here.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123957: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:55:02 AM

@EmeraldEmperor I do think that making Ultron's creator Tony Stark rather than Hank Pym was a bad choice. Since Ultron takes after his "dad" in both continuities, MCU Ultron is Starky and snarky, which doesn't sit well with me. But comics Ultron takes after Pym, which makes him all the more dangerous — Stark may be psychologically messed-up, but Pym is crazy.

Trope Editor (he/him)
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123958: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:56:59 AM

On the bright side, if Ultron does return (which I'm not adverse to), with Tony dead he doesn't really have anything else to do but try and murder everything.

Guess that's not really a "bright" side, but, again, you get my point.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 19th 2020 at 12:00:31 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123959: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:59:34 AM

Should we make a thread in the western animation section for what if. Assuming one isn't their already ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123961: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:23:05 PM

Age of Ultron needed a few more drafts or to not be Ultron

Although I’m not going to complain about Hank not getting bogged down with Ultron in the movies

It lets him be a jerk in other ways

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#123962: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:30:42 PM

Not at all an original take (and I remember participating in this discussion at least once) but Ultron comes across "better"/scarier in the party scene, featured in the trailer, than he does in the rest of the movie.

I wouldn't say that Spader's take is a bad one, but it's one of those cases where you know exactly what you are going to get when a casting is announced, and for better or worse, you get it.

I also feel like while Ultron as an Evil Pym is presented as something that reflects interestingly and perhaps badly on Hank Pym's character, the MCU/Joss Whedon didn't have the guts or desire to do the same with Tony Stark. MCU!Ultron has Stark's quippy personality, but is evil almost exclusively because of the Mind Stone twisting the good intentions of the programming/"source material".

I mean yeah, there's some link between Tony wanting to "put a shield around the world" and Ultron wanting to save humanity by wiping it out, butUltron's not evil because of taking Stark's ideas to a horrible conclusion. He's evil because something external is screwing with his programming.

Edited by Hodor2 on Dec 19th 2020 at 2:31:51 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123963: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:41:31 PM

I thought he went evil less because the Mind Stone was screwing with him, and more because he was a literal newborn who downloaded every horrible thing humanity ever did directly into his brain.

Admittedly, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but if the Infinity Stones were that malevolent I feel like more people would talk about it.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 19th 2020 at 12:42:44 PM

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123964: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:44:21 PM

Yeah, Vision had the Mind Stone as part of his programming, and he didn't go crazy.

Trope Editor (he/him)
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123965: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:50:52 PM

It's not entirely clear what the heck happened with Ultron. Some think the Mind Stone deliberately made him go evil, because of the after-credit scene that vaguely implies Thanos was responsible for everything, but the rest of the movie doesn't really reflect that. On the other hand, his ultimate actions don't make a lot of sense for a being with the stated intention of protecting humanity from themselves, and comes off as someone there with the intent of killing everything.

There's ultimately no real motivation for his actions beyond "he went crazy," which is why the character comes off as so weak. Insanity can be a very good villain motivator, but the movie just tended to use it as an excuse to write him doing things that were evil regardless of consistency.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 19th 2020 at 12:54:04 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123966: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:57:28 PM

Last I heard, the Mind Stone had been influencing Loki and fueling his hate towards the earth in The Avengers. Tony did state the Stone was like a computer, so it's entirely possible Thanos programmed it to make Loki pissed off at humans, and a little bit of that was still around when Ultron was made (and obviously wore off completely by the time Vision came around).

I actually didn't mind the increasingly unhinged Motive Decay, and only had two problems with it: They didn't commit enough to it and as a result Ultron felt weakly written, and they were using it for Ultron.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 19th 2020 at 12:58:22 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123967: Dec 19th 2020 at 12:59:15 PM

Ultron probably should have gone full control freak taking over for humanity’s own good to get that good Tony gone bad feel

The threat isn’t that he’ll drop a meteor and kill everyone the threat is humanity losing its autonomy forever as Ultron tries to protect against a scary universe

Full well intentioned extremist with emphasis on extremist

The movie needed some more drafts

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123968: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:09:20 PM

[up] Again, that sounds more like a Sentinel's characterization than Ultron's.

Trope Editor (he/him)
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123969: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:11:32 PM

Comics Ultron's, perhaps, but Ultron's basic characterization in the MCU is "AI who intends to protect humanity, and goes increasingly violent in how it defines 'protection,'" hence the oddities with the inconsistency. MCU Ultron isn't really the same kind of character as comics Ultron.

And in any case, Sentinels are less about protecting humanity as much as weeding out parts of it they've deemed as inferior anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 19th 2020 at 1:11:46 AM

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123970: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:13:36 PM

[up] Yes, I know MCU Ultron is different from comics Ultron. I thought we were talking about what went wrong in that regard.

Trope Editor (he/him)
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123971: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:20:30 PM

So far, as far as I'm aware, we've been talking about how film Ultron is inconsistent with itself, not strictly how it's not the same as the comics version.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123972: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:22:17 PM

I mean, I've been whining about how he's different. tongue

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 19th 2020 at 1:23:36 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123973: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:38:14 PM

The movie used comic Ultron’s methods except didn’t bridge that and the new personality and origin they gave him

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123974: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:51:20 PM

Derailing the topic here, but any theories on what the hell The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special will be about?

Assuming it's a "special" as in a normal, 40-minute television episode, it'll probably just be wacky hijinks. Assuming it's, say, an hour and thirty minutes like the original Star Wars version, though, I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't tie-in to Vol. 3 in some way, shape or form.

Given the latter, I'd guess that the special will set up exploration into Rocket's backstory for the actual film, maybe introducing the High Evolutionary (who I previously heard was going to be involved), while the movie itself segways into the the Sovereign, Adam Warlock, and the Magus.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#123975: Dec 19th 2020 at 1:53:09 PM

Yeah, I think Ultron would've been a better villain had they leaned more into making a twisted mirror of Tony. Take Tony's line of "I see a suit of armour around the world" and make that Ultron's motivation. Make it so he sees himself as a saviour and thinks he's doing everything in humanity's best interest. The movie tries to do something like that, but it's half-baked. Ultron wants to save humanity by causing a mass extinction level event and forcing the remnants to evolve into something better? At least, I think that was his plan before it morphed into "rocks fall and everyone dies" after the Maximoffs left.

[up] The Guardians visit Groot's homeplanet where they watch variety-show sketches.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Dec 19th 2020 at 4:54:23 AM


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