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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I'm for Mole Man as the first FF antagonist. After all, MCU Spiderman's first enemy was the Vulture (like in the comics, if memory serves), so it would make sense to return to basics with the FF as well.
Doom could be a recurring villain across films. After all, very few villains so far have survived the film they were introduced in (apart from Thanos, only Loki and Nebula come to mind, and the latter was more of The Dragon anyway).
Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.![]()
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My problem is, you saw how much "Thanos did nothing wrong" stuff was going around after Infinity War, right? And that was a villain with a ridiculous, obviously flawed evil plan. I'd rather not be seeing that kind of stuff for dictatorships, something that's a problem in real life. Having Doom take over Latveria and make it a better place is about as pro-dictatorship a message as you could get.
It's that Repressive, but Efficient trope I'd have a problem with, not Doom being morally gray.
Edited by FGHIK on Dec 16th 2020 at 2:48:09 PM
But then Marvel/the Russos response was to make it abundantly clear that no Thanos was absolutely NOT at all sympathetic when you look objectively at his actual methods and results instead of the version he talks about.
And that would be a similar situation with Doom I imagine. Plenty of kicked puppies and hypocrisy to show that while he is CAPABLE of good, it's only ever pragmatic. Doom does not do altruism.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."Yes, in the comics the original Latverian monarchy was/is pretty much garbage.
Doom's dictatorship offers a lot of benefits like better living standards, education, health insurance...but it's also a place where it's outright illegal to say anything remotely bad about Doom. It's considered sedition, and the penalties are not light. Any Latverian who is caught talking shit about Doom risks life imprisonment.
Edited by M84 on Dec 16th 2020 at 6:23:39 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Frankly, I would hope he was either played by or have writers consult someone who's European Roma. Since American Romani people just don't go through the same discrimination as European do, and I have doubts on how knowledgeable Americans are about Romani.
Edited by djoki996 on Dec 16th 2020 at 3:14:33 AM
The Dr Doom comic had a Latverian citizen comment that of course they feared Doom and knew he was a dictator but they also liked how the rest of the world feared Doom too much to easily mess with Latveria, a very kicked around country in much of history
Which sure is a take
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThe current Doctor Doom comic had a Latverian meteorologist and her two American colleagues talk about Doom's dictatorship. When the American colleagues bring up the scary parts of Doom's regime like Doombots and such, she simply responds by mentioning all of the benefits that Doom has brought to Latveria.
When her colleagues persist in bringing up the bad shit, she then recites the law of sedition that forbids Latverian citizens from speaking out against Doom. Her colleagues get the message and shut up.
Disgusted, but not surprised“We’ll take the evil we know vs the other worse evil we also know, thank you”
Edited by Bocaj on Dec 16th 2020 at 11:29:55 AM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersWe should never be campaigning against more nuanced writing solely because some fans will respond badly to it.
I'd prefer to have a better written Doom and have to ignore a few videos on the internet than a worse written Doom.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 16th 2020 at 8:39:07 AM
Yeah, basically if a villain has any nuance beyond being a terrible person who does terrible things for terrible reasons you are going to have some nutters argue that they are in the right.
Heck Killmonger also had people arguing that he was in the right even though his response to injustice and oppression is essentially even more injustice and oppression, just with him and his supporters being the oppressors.
With Doom I think it could be worth saying explicitly at some point that with Doom being as brilliant as he is, he could of easily democratized Latveria after kicking out the monarchy, served a couple terms as head of state, turned it into one of the most prosperous nation on the planet, and then lived out the rest of his life in comfort as a respected statesman.
But no, instead he turned Latveria into his own personal fiefdom that, while technically was better off then it was under the Monarchy by most metrics, isn't really counted among the world's most prosperous countries and he often neglects their needs and even their lives in favor of pursuing some petty grudge. Not to mention the whole "severely punishing anyone who speaks out against him in any way" thing.
I think that’s a point that the Dr Doom solo and Secret Wars makes
Doom makes Battleworld a hell world with zombies basically out of spite
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI do agree with this. Because some nutters just want to cheer for the bad guy the moment they show a tiny bit of nuance, even when that nuance doesn't change the fact that....they're still the bad guy.
This may be due to how cynical and misanthropic people are in general these days.
Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't write some shades of grey. It does mean we have to do it well, but you have to accept the fact that even if well written, some will dislike it, and some will intentionally misconstrue it to fit their own ideals.
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It's a Marvel movie. So they'll be fighting their evil counterpart for the first movie. Super-Skrull confirmed!