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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123801: Dec 15th 2020 at 9:18:53 AM

I imagine that What If will simply get its own character page.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#123802: Dec 15th 2020 at 9:19:10 AM

Random thought that occurred to me: with all of the multiverse stuff coming up, how are we going to deal with the character folders?

Most of the alternate versions of characters from Endgame have too minor roles and are too similar to their original counterparts to warrant separate entries, but our new Loki is probably going to need a separate folder on his character page. And the current "Multiverse" page is probably going to get really bloated once What If...? comes out.

Depends. For the What If characters, we should be fine giving them their own page.

As for more complicated guys like, say, the Loki in Loki or the Gamora from Endgame, then I guess it'll depend on how different they end up becoming. And also how meaty 2014!Gamora's role will be going forward. (Like, should we expect to see her in the upcoming GOTG Holiday Special? Or would that take place after Vol. 2 but before Infinity War?)

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123803: Dec 15th 2020 at 9:34:07 AM

2014!Gamora already has a folder.

Obviously, I don't mean to advocate for combining What If characters folders with the main ones, that would be stupid and unnecessarily confusing. I'm just worried about the multiverse page getting too big.

I mean, I'm assuming we're not going to make folders for every character in every episode, just for radically different or relevant characters. For example, in the "Captain Britain" episode I'd assume we'll only make folders for Peggy and Steve, maybe a few other characters if they're important enough.

I know it's not really important to establish at the moment, but I'd just like to get a grasp of what we're going to do.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#123804: Dec 15th 2020 at 2:17:57 PM

Cool Fact:

Kang the Conquerer holds the distinction of having been performed by two guys named "Jonathan."

Jonathan Adams voiced Kang when he appeared in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and now we have Jonathan Majors playing Kang in Ant-Man & The Wasp: Quantumania.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#123805: Dec 15th 2020 at 3:41:41 PM

So, with F4 on the making, any actor you guys want to see taking on Dr. Doom. Mine was Mads Mikkelsen, but alas.

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123806: Dec 15th 2020 at 3:45:28 PM

I'm personally hoping they hold off on Doc Doom, and start with a lesser-known FF foe. The Mole Man, the Puppet Master, Annihilus et cetera.

Trope Editor (he/him)
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#123807: Dec 15th 2020 at 3:47:41 PM

Oh, of course. I personally want them to go on a D+ series with him,or introduce him in other way (looking at you Armor Wars).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123808: Dec 15th 2020 at 3:49:39 PM

I said it before but he shouldn't be the main villain of the first film. Give that role to someone else and then build him up as a top recurring threat instead.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#123809: Dec 15th 2020 at 3:57:58 PM

I want them to start with the RED GHOST (AND HIS SUPER-APES!) or Mole Man. Red Ghost is tricky if it's not a period piece given he's a soviet supervillain (and his origin is literally the Soviet Union's response to the Fantastic Four, but with 3/4s of the group being a bunch of apes).

Mole Man is just a man for all seasons though. His own thing even suits itself well to the exploring family gimmick (i.e superhero equivalent of Journey to the Center of the Earth).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123810: Dec 15th 2020 at 4:40:07 PM

If they wanted to do an evil FF team they could always adapt the U-Foes.

Trope Editor (he/him)
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#123811: Dec 15th 2020 at 4:40:36 PM

Back in the day, Danny Devito would have made an awesome Mole Man (come to think about it, his Penguin was actually more Mole Man than Penguin), but sadly he's too old now.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#123812: Dec 15th 2020 at 4:44:35 PM

Diablo for coolest looking villain

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#123813: Dec 15th 2020 at 4:57:04 PM

Mole Man's a good choice for a starter villain, with Doom/Annihilus/Galactus better saved for later films. Maybe Wizard, with or without the Frightful Four?

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123815: Dec 15th 2020 at 5:22:19 PM

Hell, if they ignored the Inhumans series they could put in Maximus the Mad!

Trope Editor (he/him)
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#123816: Dec 15th 2020 at 5:36:45 PM

Danny De Vito would still absolutely crush it as Mole Man.

He's probably too busy though.

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#123817: Dec 15th 2020 at 5:56:06 PM

Since a Head of State in a metal mask and a medieval-ish armor would stick out like a sore thumb, I'm gonna assume Doom didn't take over Latveria just yet.

So, I think they should introduce Doom in his own movie/mini series as he takes it over. Considering what previous ruler was like, people should have no problem rooting for Doom.

ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#123818: Dec 15th 2020 at 5:57:09 PM

They could make Doom into a flamboyant terrorist, like they did with the fake Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

Trope Editor (he/him)
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#123819: Dec 15th 2020 at 6:06:15 PM

Oh god, for a moment I thought of them doing the fake-Mandarin twist but for Doom instead. If the other previous cinematic Dooms weren't bad enough...

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#123820: Dec 15th 2020 at 8:19:37 PM

Do we really want to make a dictator look sympathetic?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123821: Dec 15th 2020 at 8:20:09 PM

After the reactions to the previous Dooms, I'd be very surprised if the the film version of DOOM is practically the most comics-like character in the entire MCU - essentially as free means to Win Back the Crowd.

The ball's basically in Marvel's court to go "hey, look at us, we're doing Doom right" and eat up the easy hype and adoration from it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 15th 2020 at 8:21:23 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#123822: Dec 15th 2020 at 8:24:08 PM

[up][up]Doom is a complicated question that Jack Kirby always insisted the answer to was “No.”

Is prosperity and peace worth it if it is under the whim of one man’s ego? All the arguments for and against lead back to “No.”

He’s still fun to watch though.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#123823: Dec 15th 2020 at 8:25:03 PM

Doom is weird about that. He has all that honor and noble goals talk and is genuinely brilliant and worked himself to that near top and could do a lot of good, but then he does something horrific or tosses it all aside because of "RICHAAAARDSSS!!!"

And then there is the fact that you can't tell if it's him or some Doombot getting glitchy half the time.

Edited by Blueace on Dec 15th 2020 at 1:25:34 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#123824: Dec 15th 2020 at 8:33:47 PM

Imo the best way to play Doom is with Pragmatic Villainy. He does noble things through the course of accomplishing selfish goals. Perhaps he even believes that legitimately being noble is the best means of pursuing those goals. But when the chips are down, what he cares about isn't that nobility, it's those selfish goals themselves, and he will always prize his own ego first.

I've always liked the concept of his arc on Spider-Man the Animated Series: on an alien planet, he manages to become the most powerful ruler around by being benevolent, because all the other warlords were short-sighted, violent supervillains who were wrecking everything, and so the people were falling over themselves to devote themselves to him just for him not being like them. Basically, using the people's reaction to his good deeds to position himself as a totalitarian dictator, yet having the mask fall away when he finds that there is power even greater than what he has within his grasp.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 15th 2020 at 8:35:15 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#123825: Dec 16th 2020 at 12:04:15 AM

Do we really want to make a dictator look sympathetic?

Yes?

Humans are humans. If your villain is a human, they should act like one, for better or for worse.

Don't get me wrong, an utterly unsympathetic puppy-eating villain can make for good shallow entertainment, but having actual nuance beyond "us good, them bad" should never be considered inherently unacceptable writing.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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