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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#123201: Nov 30th 2020 at 10:07:44 AM

who is Ironman again?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#123202: Nov 30th 2020 at 10:07:59 AM

[up]DEAD!

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#123203: Nov 30th 2020 at 10:10:42 AM

he's the guy with the mask and enemy of the fantastic four,right?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LunaStar (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#123204: Nov 30th 2020 at 10:13:01 AM

Disrespecting Doctor Doom by comparing him to Ironman? Shame on you.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123205: Nov 30th 2020 at 12:22:48 PM

Yeah, would Stark have had the foresight to skin a girlfriend to make a leather bondage suit? I think not

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#123206: Nov 30th 2020 at 12:33:55 PM

That’s the main difference between Stark & Doom.

The latter thinks ahead. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#123207: Nov 30th 2020 at 12:36:46 PM

That and Doom has his shit together. Sure, he hates Richards a whole lot, but other than that, he's a lot more well-adjusted than Tony, the insufferable alcoholic.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#123208: Nov 30th 2020 at 12:58:41 PM

.....He's trying to murder someone because he can't admit he fucked up!

Lets not try and claim Doom is better than Stark here people!

....like, they are obviously on par at best.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123209: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:01:17 PM

Doom was Iron Man for a bit so even he thought it wasn’t beneath him

Haven’t read that run but I can only assume he did a bad job

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#123210: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:01:46 PM

In fairness Tony is already a pretty terrible Iron Man so its not a high bar to pass.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123211: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:10:57 PM

He’s at least the second best iron man

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#123212: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:12:29 PM

Surely Pepper and Rhodey count.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#123213: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:16:28 PM

I have Rhodey as number 1

Has Pepper been Iron Man or has it always been the lackluster name Rescue?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#123214: Nov 30th 2020 at 1:26:49 PM

Also, despite how smart he is, Doom's pretty impulsive. The whole reason he's scarred is because he couldn't wait for his mask to cool off before putting it on.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#123215: Nov 30th 2020 at 2:47:56 PM

The latest issue of Doom’s own solo comic shows how messed up he is when it comes to Richards.

Disgusted, but not surprised
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#123216: Dec 1st 2020 at 1:52:07 AM

Doom is interesting in that he could be a legitimately tragic (in the literal sense) figure in some ways. He has the potential to be an actually good person and ruler but it's his own flaws that keep bringing him down - his inferiority/superiority complex vis-a-vis Reed and his total inability to accept that he is not infallible.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#123217: Dec 1st 2020 at 2:03:31 AM

To be a truly tragic figure he has to go through a true downfall as all Greek tragedy protagonists do.

But the nature of comics means Doom will never stay down. He'll never really learn to accept that his pride is what doomed him.

Edited by M84 on Dec 1st 2020 at 6:05:07 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#123218: Dec 1st 2020 at 2:50:36 AM

So Doom truly is insane.

Tries the same shit over and over again, expecting to succeed only to constantly get the opposite.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#123219: Dec 1st 2020 at 2:55:20 AM

This is best seen in Loki: Agent of Asgard during the Axis crossover. Doom's sense of narcissistic prideful delusion is so strong that he manages to resist a psychic Hate Plague and a psychic Truth Wave meant to counter the Hate Plague in the same issue. The literal Truth hit Doom...and he denied it.

Edited by M84 on Dec 1st 2020 at 6:55:57 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123220: Dec 1st 2020 at 4:13:32 AM

Oh yeah. Plus that comic contains the best exchange when he confused the crap out of loki because he is DOOM.

Doom: Consider this. If 'magical thinking' is the assumption of a higher narrative in the flow of events... then true magic...
Loki: What are you talking about, you mad old—
Doom: It's. My. Move. As I was saying. True magic is the imposition of a narrative upon reality. It is telling a story to the world... and making the world believe it. The dark work of police and politicians. Of rulers. And tricksters. And if magic is narrative... then to be a creature of magic... to be a god... is to be a creature of story. Yes? Your move.
Loki: Um... Sorry, I wasn't listening. Why do your robots all look like you again?
Doom: Not the move I would have made. Still— it's a fair question. Why do they look like me? Doesn't it create the possibility that I am one? That Doom may, at any moment, be a machine? That I am not myself? Of course it does. That is how I wish it. I once let Arcade strike a match on me, just to maintain that confusion. Think, boy. If I am ever defeated or dishonored— If I ever act in ways unworthy of myself... If I ever die... The word goes out: "It must have been a Doombot." And the reverse is true. My robots often confuse my foes—I may be a robot now, speaking these words. How would you know? How would I? What is Doom? The flesh and blood I can swap out at my convenience? The mind that can be copied into a thousand machines? No. Doom cannot fit in such small containers. I am not my body. Not my mind. I am... I am the old trunk, filled with ancient mysteries. I am the explosion in the college laboratory. I am the mask that burns with the fires of vengeance. I am the legend that unites this nation. I am the story of Doom. And if Doom is a creature of story...
Loki: Stop. Just... stop. This is madness, Doom. You're not a story. You're not a god. One day, you'll die—
Doom: Oh? The story of Doom can end, you say?
Loki: Yes!
Doom: Then I'm a better story than you.
—Issue #6

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#123221: Dec 1st 2020 at 4:22:51 AM

Even for a God of Lies and Stories, Doom is just too much of an epic. [lol]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#123222: Dec 1st 2020 at 4:37:33 AM

It looks like Hailee Steinfeld might have made a clear enough statement over whether or not she is Kate Bishop.

Not only does the head look like a freaky three-eyed version of Kate, but Sagittarius is famously symbolized as the archer in the zodiac. Plus, one of Hawkeye's directors responded with three purple heart emojis. If these aren't clues, then...

EDIT: [up][up] Sweet baby Jesus, what I'd give to see some version of that conversation in the MCU...surprised

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Dec 1st 2020 at 4:40:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#123223: Dec 1st 2020 at 4:49:21 AM

Tbf, Loki had not yet become a deity of stories at that time.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#123224: Dec 1st 2020 at 4:58:54 AM

[up] And if we want to go meta, the story of Loki: Agent of Asgard did end eventually, yeah? wink

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#123225: Dec 1st 2020 at 5:13:42 AM

So. About time I got to this.

I'm going to make efforts to remove Helstrom from the MCU pages, as it is the first (and unfortunately, so far only) show to have officially been decanonized: both the showrunner and Sydney Lemmon have stated that it's separate from the MCU, and it has since been classified as Earth-TRN836.

I tried proposing this change on both a cleanup thread and the main Marvel Cinematic Universe franchise page's discussion page, but received no response and a statement about the difference between a shared universe and a franchise that left me more confused than anything, respectively. (I was still new then, and didn't really know who to go to in order to propose something like this. I mean, I still don't, but this seems as good a place as any.) I decided to just wait a few months to see if anything changed (my Not-Really-OCD hasn't tied me up and been torturing me with rusty knives in the meantime, why do you ask?)... and so far, nothing has. So, time to get editing.

My changes are mostly going to consist of stating on both the Helstrom and main MCU pages that the show was intended to be in the shared universe, but was later separated—most likely due to the studio merger. Then I'm just going to move the character folders onto Helstrom's character page, and mop up anything I randomly come across after the fact.

I'm posting this here first, in case this is a really stupid idea for reasons I haven't thought of yet.


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