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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#122826: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:34:16 AM

My first preference would be that they at least attempt a recast, I really do think T'Challa and this franchise deserve better than to have whatever plans were already laid out get derailed like this. But if they don't want to or it doesn't work out, I honestly think Shuri's like my... third pick to become Black Panther?

That's not meant to be a dig at Shuri. I like Shuri, I think Shuri is great. But I also think one of the things that helps set Black Panther apart from other superheroes in the setting is a certain level of dignity. T'Challa isn't missing a sense of humor or anything, but he clearly treats the mantle and his position as king with respect and dignity. Shuri is way more flippant, and I think it would do both her and the Black Panther title a disservice to try reworking either her character or the mantle to make a square peg fit a round hole.

And yeah, I know, Shuri was Black Panther in the comics, but Shuri is a much different character in the comics (to wit, comics!Shuri always wanted to be Black Panther, while movie!Shuri has shown no such inclination), so adopting such a change would only make it "truer" to the comics on a most basic surface level.

So if they do decide they want to pass the mantle on to someone else... honestly, I'd rather it go to Okoye. I feel like how she'd treat having the role of Black Panther passed on to her would be much more in line with how T'Challa treated it (and I know some might think you'd want to go different from T'Challa if you're going to hand down the mantle anyways, but I also feel like in this instance that would mean detracting from what makes Black Panther unique). You don't even have to have her be leading the country, you could always treat separation of the Black Panther and the acting ruler as another instance of moving away from Wakanda's longstanding traditions while still honoring them.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122827: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:35:20 AM

[up][up][up] I didn't mean "what would they do" as "I don't see any possible way to continue the story," more of a general "what story are they going to go for?" I should have been more specific, I apologize.

The whole "Wakandans pissed at not being isolationist" thing just strikes me as too similar to M'Baku's subplot—though that definitely has room to be expanded upon, and there's no way all the objections stopped once M'Baku got on board.

I don't know that much about Black Panther besides the basics (my most in-depth experience was probably the Marvel Knights animation, which apparently isn't a well-liked storyline), so I don't know how integral the isolationist bit is to the setting (looking back over the enemies page... kind of a lot, now that I think about it). I should probably read up more on his storylines.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 11:36:02 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#122828: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:40:46 AM

This was brought up on I think the diversity and representation thread, but I feel if you Race Lift Magneto into being Rwanadan that would make him an excellent villain for Black Panther II. You could even have him be half-Ethiopian if you wanted to retain his Jewish roots.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122829: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:46:24 AM

I feel like Magneato's backstory is pretty much set in stone,it makes him annoyingly inflexible

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122830: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:50:08 AM

Magneto is a supremacist fanatic, I'm not sure making him African is... the wisest thing right now.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#122831: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:51:29 AM

[up] Killmonger worked too.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122832: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:52:49 AM

Eh, he'd have to be super old to be a Holocaust survivor, and while they could still make it work I doubt it would... you know, work. Especially with covid, which hopefully won't but probably will still be around by the time they start filming for the X-Men.

Whatever they do (and yeah, making him black probably isn't the greatest idea, it could work with a few adjustments and toning down the supremacy but still isn't the best idea), they definitely need to revamp his backstory in some way.

If they do tone down the supremacy and make him black, though, making him Rwandan is probably the perfect decision.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 11:56:22 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#122833: Nov 13th 2020 at 11:57:35 AM

Magneto is an X-Men character I don't want to see the MCU using for a long while yet. Along with Wolverine, he was seriously overexposed in the Fox X-Men films, and needs to sit on the shelf for a while until whatever the MCU does with mutants and the X-Men is firmly established.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#122834: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:03:52 PM

I could see it working. A Magneto who is half-rwandan half-ethiopian jewish and a mutant is a combination of a lot of oppressed peoples. So you make him a revolutionary in vain of communists. I've read that while Killmonger is compelling it's possible to read him more as a right-wing revolutionary who just happens to be black. I'd see Magneto more as "he doesn't like kings" and is specifically bitter towards Wakanda for not interfering in his countries genocide, and at the end of the movie whatever happens, the new Black Panther (say Shuri) recognizes again the villain has a point and dissolves the Wakandan Monarchy into a constitutional/ceremonial one. That's a hypothetical.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122835: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:11:22 PM

[up][up] I doubt the X-Men will stay on the shelf for long, though some of them (maybe Magneto, definitely Wolverine) should be held back.

[up] Making him a Black Panther villain seems... iffy. And while the motive is different, the general scheme (outside revolutionary trying to overthrow the current ruler, who admits maybe he has a point and tries to enforce a less murder-y version of that change) is too much of a copy-and-paste of Killmonger, in my opinion.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:13:19 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#122836: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:11:41 PM

I am always curious about the fascination with using characters from everyone except BP. Let Kraven and Magneto in their own franchises, explore T'challa's own rogues.

I literally just mentioned a good arc.

Edited by Gaon on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:12:03 PM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#122837: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:12:59 PM

Part of it is I like the idea of Magneto going up against a country/superhero that is almost entirely dependent on an exotic metal.

[up][up]I do feel you could add enough differences that it wouldn't simply be a copy-paste. For one thing my hypothetical wouldn't end with Magneto dying, but at this point they're probably not gonna go with my pitch.

Edited by jjjj2 on Nov 13th 2020 at 3:22:16 PM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122838: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:15:29 PM

... Okay, you just made the idea 1000x better, though it would be too much of a curb-stomp to last a full movie. Save it for either a minor subplot in an X-Men film or whatever Avengers movie they're on by the time the X-Men are really prominent.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:18:47 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#122839: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:18:17 PM

Black Panther doesn't exactly have the best, most varied Rogues Gallery ever, so choices are kind of limited.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#122840: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:22:35 PM

Killmonger was a middle of the road villain before the first movie. That's what adaptations are for.

You have Achebe, Moses Magnum and M'baku variations (i.e either our M'baku ends up antagonistic or another Jabari takes up his villainous role) still to use.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122841: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:31:47 PM

[up] The "A Nation Under Our Feet" thing is easily the best idea I've heard so far (maybe add in a bit about the isolationism, because again, that can't have magically disappeared).

And then make the third movie with Namor! Because everyone will bitch about it if that doesn't happen. tongue (Though if I have to be honest, I would totally watch that.)

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:33:45 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#122842: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:39:51 PM

No, you know who's overdue for a movie adaptation that isn't horrible? Howard the Duck.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122843: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:41:46 PM

Magneto could just be made into a post-humous character.

Both keeps his classic origin & ensure he won’t get much focus until he gets resurrected later on or something.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:42:12 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#122844: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:43:10 PM

I see no problem with also making longevity part of his mutation.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 13th 2020 at 9:43:20 PM

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AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122845: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:43:48 PM

If I had to pick a Marvel villain out of the BP sandbox to act as the villain for a BP sequel, I'd actually pick... Nighthawk.

Both are sort of Marvel parallels to Batman, so they can play that off each other. Nighthawk can be either used to bring the Sinister/Supreme Squadron in and/or to redeem him later, so there's a lot of paths to be opened there. Nighthawk has been reimagined as Afroamerican before, if you want to go there.

You can even use him along the way to help set the Defenders up, too.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#122846: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:44:12 PM

Or, hear me out here.

HYDRA kept him on ice.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#122847: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:45:48 PM

[up] And after waking him up, he slaughtered them.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#122848: Nov 13th 2020 at 12:46:59 PM

[up][up]I feel like they would have used him out sooner, if that were the case. Or killed him immediately, if they couldn't brainwash him.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 13th 2020 at 12:47:56 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122849: Nov 13th 2020 at 1:04:10 PM

I'm now picturing Megeanto in bunny slippers getting out of bed because Hydra set his alarm clock

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122850: Nov 13th 2020 at 1:12:43 PM

Ideally Magnus and Charles should be contemporaries.


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