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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#122601: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:42:35 AM

I love the MCU but it’s never been great at keeping minor/supporting villains interesting and threatening, sometimes even in the span of a single film. The Cap movies each passing a second-stage villain off into a decent minor role in the next were exceptions, but those films didn't have to juggle quite so much as Endgame did.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 7th 2020 at 11:45:16 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122602: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:47:02 AM

The Corvus in Infinity War seemed to work better by stealth and surprise and less well when he didn't have that going for him. A packed battlefield was no place for him.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122603: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:50:32 AM

Corvus is a Paper Tiger.

Hopefully the Loki from the new series will manage to be a serious threat again.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Nov 7th 2020 at 11:50:45 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122604: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:52:09 AM

Well he is gonna be the protagonist this time.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122605: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:55:26 AM

And assuming that the character of Richard E. Grant turns out to be Old Loki, Loki will be the protagonist and the main antagonist at the same time.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122606: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:56:02 AM

Thats classic Loki really

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#122607: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:58:51 AM

Its also possible Lady Loki will make an appearance at some point, though there's a lot of different ways they could do that.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122608: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:59:17 AM

Crossing my fingers for Cat Thor Loki

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122609: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:59:40 AM

Its a Goddamn Loki-verse.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122610: Nov 7th 2020 at 1:28:12 PM

Loki: Into the Lokiverse.

Loki-geddon.

....or should I call that Loki-rok?

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122611: Nov 7th 2020 at 3:33:58 PM

You gotta remember that being Juggie also comes with an insanely powerful Healing Factor. Cain once healed back from being reduced to a skeleton by hellfire.

Okay, I know we're long past this, but I need to ask: how do Juggernaut's powers work? I was always under the impression that all he had was literal invincibility and super strength, but this also says that he has a healing factor, which doesn't make any sense. Why would he need a healing factor if he's invincible? Also, the Deadpool movie confused me on this, because Juggernaut takes damage in that movie.

I thought the whole point of Juggernaut is that he's completely invincible to physical attacks, so the only way to beat him is to remove his helmet and incapacitate him telepathically. Any time I see him lose in any other manner, it doesn't make sense to me.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#122612: Nov 7th 2020 at 3:41:59 PM

He is empowered by the kind of guys Dr. Strange makes business with. No wonder his powers are so insane.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#122613: Nov 7th 2020 at 3:44:43 PM

Juggernaut is invulnerable in the same sense that Hulk's strength is infinite.

It's basically a stepstone for writers when they want to go all "See? This threat is so big, it even manages to wound the INVULNERABLE Juggernaut!", see Onslaught.

As for how his powers work, well basically he was enchanted by the God of Destruction (Cyttorak) to be very strong, very tough, immune to telepathy (with his helmet), with a (near-)unstoppable momentum and yeah, also with a healing factor, allthough it's rarely shown because he is so hard to hurt in the first place.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 7th 2020 at 12:46:03 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122614: Nov 7th 2020 at 3:46:33 PM

> Why would he need a healing factor if he's invincible?

invincibility means he can't be killed,but that doesn't mean he can't be harmed

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122615: Nov 7th 2020 at 5:47:13 PM

IIRC the healing factor was an invention of Todd Mc Farlane and Rob Liefeld when they were doing the X-Force and Spider-Man crossover. They wanted a scene where Shatterstar stabbed Juggernaut in the eye. The editor complained Juggernaut couldn't be stabbed through the eye in the first place because he's invulnerable, you can't pierce him with a sword. Rob's Shatterstarboner won and they put that in throwing a line about Juggs' healing factor taking care of it afterwards, but the editor was still pissed off.

That was, IIRC, the last major disagreement with editors that prompted Mc Farlane and Liefeld's already mostly decided departure from Marvel. Since the start of Mc Farlane's solo stunt as a complete Spidey author he'd been locking horns with editorial over his... questionable story and character portrayal choices, and the letter pages were filled with passive-agressive exchanges between them while answering fans.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#122616: Nov 7th 2020 at 6:04:45 PM

[up][up]That's immortality.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122618: Nov 7th 2020 at 6:54:09 PM

invincibility means he can't be killed,but that doesn't mean he can't be harmed

No, invincibility absolutely means that he can't be harmed. Immortal means you can't be killed, invincible means that absolutely nothing can damage you in any way.

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122619: Nov 7th 2020 at 6:59:02 PM

Invincibility means you can't be dealt enough damage as to be defeated, but technically 'being hurt' doesn't preclude 'being victorious anyway'.

Immortality is being unable to be killed.

INVULNERABILITY is the property of being immune to any damage at all.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122620: Nov 7th 2020 at 7:21:49 PM

Okay, then Juggernaut is invulnerable. His whole shtick is being a Puzzle Boss where none of the X-Men can even hope to do damage to him normally, so they need to undo each of the latches on his helmet to allow Xavier to one-shot him.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122621: Nov 7th 2020 at 8:47:32 PM

Actually, I can kinda see how a situation where Juggernaut would need a healing factor would come up.

Lets say someone burns him with the always burns all your flesh off, no matter how invulnerable you are fire spell. So now he's the unstoppable skinless Juggernaut, because the flames ALWAYS BURNS ALL YOUR FLESH OFF NO MATTER HOW INVULNERABLE YOU ARE.

But, Juggernaut powers also include the can't be hurt permanently no matter what spell as well, so he gets a healing factor for those rare occasions where someone uses a spell that does you know what.

Now in regards to the stabbed in the eye by Shatterstar thing, maybe Shatterstar's sword just has an always stabs you in the eye no matter how invulnerable you are thing going for it, similar to the non-existent spell I mentioned. I admit, I don't know much about Shatterstar and his sword beyond the fact that splatters against a helicopter rotor pretty badly.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122623: Nov 7th 2020 at 8:54:21 PM

Before anyone says see you're wrong Rob, I should point out that in that case, in addition to being the Juggernaut, he was also empowered by another god because he was wielding one of it's evil hammers.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122624: Nov 7th 2020 at 9:21:26 PM

The 2nd Deadpool miniseries had a Juggernaut covered in lava.

Huh ya know hindsight Cain appearing in DP 2 makes sense, he has tangled with DP before.

Shame he doesn’t have his friendship with Black Tom.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122625: Nov 7th 2020 at 9:21:33 PM

Is he double dipping?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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