TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#122526: Nov 5th 2020 at 9:40:33 AM

For me the issue is less the scene itself and more how the rest of the film sidelines and underutilizes said women, on top of other issues like the infamous “Manpain Stone”. So to suddenly highlight them out of the blue in a seemingly “feminist moment” feels disingenuous compared to the rest of the movie (and largely MCU as a whole) revolving exclusively around men.

A feature film could avert some of those issues provided the characters are given room to form genuine bonds and interesting arcs, but that should come with future films giving them much more focus than the MCU often flip-flops on.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122527: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:24:06 PM

One problem with "Girl power" is that with the exception of Wanda, all the girls are much weaker than Carol who just five minutes ago had destroyed a giant ship.

That is, Valkyria is probably is the third in power, and is only a little stronger than Squishy Wizard Loki.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122528: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:25:18 PM

MCU Loki isn't that squishy. He's much stronger than Cap and can actually hold his own fighting Thor in hand-to-hand combat for a short time.

I'd put MCU Loki on par with Iron Man, strictly in terms of physical strength.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 5th 2020 at 1:26:14 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#122529: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:28:25 PM

Yeah Valkyrie barely had any trouble against Loki and took down a Leviathan with the aid of her flying horse, something even the central Avengers struggled with, so she should be comfortably in the heavyweights. Rescue too.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122530: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:31:56 PM

My point is that even the third strongest member of the group is much weaker than Carol.

So their dialogue, in which they say that they are going to support her loses a lot of strength.

Like I said before, Carol got through a ship without a hitch. A group of Mooks led by Corvus would not be a problem for her.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Nov 5th 2020 at 12:33:05 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122531: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:33:57 PM

Not really.

They very clearly clear a path and if she hadn't sped past them, she could have definitely used their help dogpiling Thanos.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#122532: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:36:45 PM

From what I recall, their main achievement was holding down Thanos while he tried to go for Carol. That almost worked and they only lost because he aimed for the time machine instead.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122533: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:39:08 PM

Tier list of MCU women:

  • Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch (actually, no male heroes occupy this tier currently, they're both the only characters to ever cleanly overpower Thanos, the only person who might come close is Captain America with Mjolnir)

  • Rescue, Valkyrie (Valkyrie is stronger than Loki, but Rescue should be stronger than Avengers-era Iron Man)

  • Gamora, Nebula (strength is somewhat unclear, definitely superhuman going by Guardians 2 feats), Wasp (if she ever goes Giant-Woman, though, she moves up a tier)

  • Okoye, Shuri, Mantis (Badass Normal, ignoring Mantis's insanely powerful mental manipulation which is hard to put in a tier list)

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 5th 2020 at 1:40:23 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122534: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:39:15 PM

> I'd put MCU Loki on par with Iron Man, strictly in terms of physical strength.

Hulk smashing Loki.gif

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122535: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:43:45 PM

[up]That's not saying much, a direct fight between Iron Man from the first movie and the Hulk would also have been a one-sided beating.

[down]Shuri in the previous movie was easily defeated by Glass Cannon Corvus, so I wouldn't put her that high.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Nov 5th 2020 at 12:50:27 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#122536: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:45:25 PM

Shuri’s got a higher ceiling of potential given her tech-based powers and likelihood of getting her own Vibranium suit, so I expect her to jump up one or two tiers.

Also Monica Rambeau is on her way as of WandaVision and she’s easily A+ tier in the comics.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 5th 2020 at 12:48:29 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122537: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:48:49 PM

Not really.

They very clearly clear a path and if she hadn't sped past them, she could have definitely used their help dogpiling Thanos.

Exactly. Carol was able to focus on going for the time machine because she wasn't wasting time dealign with the mooks, who don't need to stop her, just knock the glove out of her hands.

One Strip! One Strip!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#122538: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:53:29 PM

It's hard to gauge how strong Loki is because he only ever fights some of the strongest characters in the MCU (ie Thor, Hulk, Hela, and Thanos).

The legend has returned.
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#122539: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:57:18 PM

[up]If you are the Hulk, Loki is a "Puny God", if you are Captain America he is a tough opponent.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Nov 5th 2020 at 12:57:37 PM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#122540: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:03:18 PM

Loki is actually clever enough to avoid direct physical confrontations whenever he can and switch to illusions and mindgames. On that side only Black Widow has been able to best him, and Thor in Ragnarok.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#122541: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:31:48 PM

And widow just catch him for a moment and it was pointless: Loki just use mind control clint to invade the helicarrier and carry out is plan.

There is also him vs thor in the first movie were thor used the power of is hammer to beat is ilusion.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#122542: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:36:33 PM

Shuri would go up if she got a full suit, but she's certainly quite low-tier for now.

In a full movie this could be helped by just having a less direct threat, though, and a plot which requires other skills. Shuri in particular is defined more by her intelligence.


It occurs to me that if we do get an A-Force movie, it will probably have very little roster overlap with the actual comics A-Force (the smaller second roster, not the absurdly large first roster). Captain Marvel, yes, and She-Hulk maybe, but I feel like Medusa and Nico Minoru are unlikely as they've already been used in the tv shows. Dazzler could theoretically be introduced, though tragically we wouldn't get Dazzler Thor. Singularity would be a longshot, as she's a pretty out-there idea ("a sentient quantum singularity).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#122543: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:38:31 PM

Medusa is unlikely. Pretty sure after the mess that was inhumans. Marvel will stay away from them from now on. Only possible expection being miss marvel (kamala khan) and thats if they dont decide for a different origin.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122544: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:55:39 PM

wild mass guessMedusa shows for five seconds but she's bald because CGI hair is too expensive even for a movie

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122545: Nov 5th 2020 at 1:56:53 PM

Logically Crystal should have been the Inhumans rep since there's not much reason why a major woman like Medusa would be apart of a random team.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122546: Nov 5th 2020 at 3:16:26 PM

Marvel has apparently said they are taking a break from the Inhumans for five years, and were in year three of that break.

It was mentioned in the main marvel comics thread, but it was a few pages back. I may try to dig it up for everyone.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#122547: Nov 5th 2020 at 3:19:40 PM

Speaking of Inhumans, apparently Black Bolt is a friend of the Fantastic four so if they are going to try again with Inhumans they might do it through a Fantastic four movie

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122548: Nov 5th 2020 at 3:35:55 PM

Alright. I found the post in the Marvel Comics thread.

And here's the direct link.

So it's just a CBR post, and there's no real confirmation, but Marvel taking a break from the Inhumans might not be such a poor idea. Permulter's determination to push them shit the pot badly and tainted the brand, and Marvel's gonna have to think long and hard on how they'll bring them back.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122549: Nov 5th 2020 at 3:44:51 PM

Its not like the Inhumans were ever much of a major thing even before the push.

Them going back to the sidelines is essentially things going back to normal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#122550: Nov 5th 2020 at 3:51:44 PM

Yeah, but these movies have pushed several B-Listers (and maybe C-Listers) into the spotlight. The whole push made them hated instead of ignored and screwed up their chance to be more known.

Wake me up at your own risk.

Total posts: 186,763
Top