TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#122276: Oct 29th 2020 at 3:44:15 PM

That's one kill that Frank would have been absolutely justified in.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#122277: Oct 29th 2020 at 3:49:42 PM

Why doesn't Spider-Man kill the Joker? tongue

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122278: Oct 29th 2020 at 3:50:38 PM

It was stupid that Joker would think Frank wouldn't be willing to kill him since for that crossover, Batman and Punisher existed in the same reality the whole time and Punisher is very famous as, you know, a man who kills all criminals.

Extra dumb because Joker was allied with Jigsaw, who knows better than anyone how bloodthirsty Frank is.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#122279: Oct 29th 2020 at 4:06:07 PM

I like Joker's Favor because I think that's a pretty brilliant interpretation of The Joker. You see, The Joker might not necessarily fear death per se. Heck, I'd argue he wants Batman to kill him-it'd prove that he could make The Batman betray his principles.

However, some completely mundane rando murdering him over a largely private matter? That's a terrible anticlimax that'd ruin everything he worked for. Worse, it plays right into his beliefs about human nature, by his accounts, there's no way that guy isn't going to kill him.

With The Punisher it's hard to say. On one hand, I think The Punisher is a 'big enough deal' compared to Charlie, and The Punisher behaves quite a bit like how The Joker expects people to. The Punisher killing The Joker would, to The Joker, be confirmation of his philosophy.

The problem is actually that The Punisher does so too well and too unapologetically. Convincing Batman to kill you is an achievement, but convincing The Punisher to do so? Just about anyone can do that. The Punisher wouldn't consider it a defeat and he isn't falling from grace by doing so. If The Punisher heard The Joker's "One Bad Day" speech, he'd say something like "Yes, that's correct" and then shoot him.

So, if Batman is a stuffed shirt with 'no sense of humor' from The Joker's perspective, The Punisher is either a guy who more literally has 'no sense of humor'. As in, someone who is Literal-Minded and takes things you say at face value not even realizing it's a joke, until you explain that is, at which point they laugh despite clearly not getting the joke (or if they do get it, explaining why the joke is funny thus ruining it).

Leviticus 19:34
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#122280: Oct 29th 2020 at 4:16:37 PM

Being killed by a guy who's job it is to kill bad guys wouldn't be the kind of end that Joker wants. Joker wants to be killed by someone for whom the act of killing him will be traumatizing, will be impactful, will be spectacular. Dying by Punisher is ultimately just being just another tally mark, not even Punisher himself will care, which is very much a fate Joker would hate to have - though ultimately I don't know if that's the way that crossover framed it.

It's worth noting that DCAU Joker was a lot more of a coward and a bully than comics Joker, though. The dude tended to freak out at the notion of death or defeat in general, with Mask of the Phantasm being the only example.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 29th 2020 at 4:17:33 AM

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122281: Oct 29th 2020 at 4:52:16 PM

Well, animated Joker also was laughing during his 'death' in the World's Finest two parter, IIRC. I know he did in the comics adaptation at least, since I have it at hand right now.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#122282: Oct 29th 2020 at 5:07:43 PM

Ah, yeah. I did forget about World's Finest.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#122283: Oct 29th 2020 at 5:31:56 PM

He usually freaks out first, but then has a laughing fit when it looks like he can't escape

That said in Return of the Joker we saw his final words were "that's not funny" after Tim shot him.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#122284: Oct 29th 2020 at 5:35:16 PM

Surprising they don't use Nightwing for it. Come on, you have an actual circus kid and he doesn't mock the hell out of the second rate clown he keeps running into? It's like they are scared of ridiculing the Joker.

I think the people who made this voice skit would agree with you.

One interpretation I see very often is that the Joker hates Robins because they - with the exception of Damian - often act as a colorful and humorous foil to Batman and Joker feels that is his job.

[up] He was also terrified when he thought Charlie Collins was going to kill him because he didn't want to die at the hands of a "nobody".

Edited by windleopard on Oct 29th 2020 at 5:38:48 AM

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122285: Oct 29th 2020 at 5:44:20 PM

I think he also looked scared enough when he thought Harley was going to kill him in 'Harlequinade', and he was screaming while falling down an industry chimney in 'Mad Love'. He also had this Oh, Crap! reaction when falling towards the shark in 'The Laughing Fish'.

In 'Wild Cards', when he claims he's just insane enough as to shrug Ace's powers off, then we see he actually can't, while Comics! Joker probably could have. So, Comics! Joker is insane enough to usually just not care much if he's killed (and one could probably argue he has a death wish deep down) while Animated! Joker is not.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Oct 29th 2020 at 5:46:23 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122286: Oct 29th 2020 at 5:52:59 PM

I can imagine he considered dying at Andrea’s hands in Phantasm a spectacular one.

He does at the hands of a victim he broken whom he know will hurt both her & Batman as all the while the Gotham future amusement park comes down around them in a fiery Hell.

It’s a pretty perfect death.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#122287: Oct 29th 2020 at 6:14:29 PM

I forget where I read it, but I saw something recently that said that Walker would be going by the codename Captain America in Winter Soldier & Falcon, which makes sense.

I imagine it'll be one of those things where he fights Falcon (with or without Bucky), and takes the shield from him at some point. Then by the end of it, Falcon beats him and takes it back, possibly donning his own Captain America costume at the same time.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122288: Oct 29th 2020 at 6:18:48 PM

I'm reminded that Walker is getting a book written by Christopher Priest which should be fun since Priest is a great writer.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122289: Oct 30th 2020 at 4:53:07 PM

Ya know there's something amusing reading the current X-Men comics and comparing the to the Foxmen.

The Foxmen kept things relatively grounded with the primary conflict throughout the films being Mutant discrimination & preventing extremist Mutants from wiping out humanity and preventing humans from commiting genocide in return.

Meanwhile things are going fucking high fantasy as the X-Men are dragged into an epic sword tournament against another dimension of magic wielding death-Mutants whose rankings include a giant multi-armed crocodile monster who speaks in rhymes.

Its fucking insane. Makes you wonder if the MCU will go any levels of crazy on that front.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#122290: Oct 30th 2020 at 4:54:10 PM

The X-Men have always been batshit crazy. The Foxmen just tended to ignore like 90% of the X-Men property.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#122291: Oct 30th 2020 at 4:55:01 PM

The X-Men have pretty much always been nuts, since they're very familiar with space operas and pretty much everything having to do with Mojo and his dimension full of death games and 80's punk imagery.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122292: Oct 30th 2020 at 4:58:12 PM

Ya gotta love how fluid they are.

Its not just the basic Mutant metaphors but also fucking insane shit that tops even the whole ordeal with Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122293: Oct 30th 2020 at 5:59:03 PM

Juggernaut is the best comparison benchmark for X-Men lore, in that regard.

In the comics he's an early debuter who is Charles Xavier's bully stepbrother who was empowered by a mystical gem found in an ancient dig and making him more unstoppable than freaking Hulk.

In the movies he's just a random strong mutant.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Oct 30th 2020 at 5:59:23 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#122294: Oct 30th 2020 at 6:44:12 PM

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel Studios' definition of the bare minimum ends up becoming leaps and bounds better than anything regarding Foxmen (except maybe Logan and the Deadpool movies).

But. There's no chance we should expect the bare minimum when the Children of the Atom arrive to the MCU. I just wish we got at least a clue about when Marvel Studios will dive into the X-Men toy box... (*blissfully ignores TFATWS having Madripoor and Omega Red rumors*)

Speaking of Foxmen, there's some buzzing that Hugh Jackman might've been offered a role in Multiverse of Madness, but if it's true, it's definitely not going to Wolverine, right? Maybe Nightmare or some other bad guy.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#122295: Oct 30th 2020 at 6:52:38 PM

[up][up] Amusingly Deadpool 2 does mention Marko's lineage in an offhand manner.

"So you wear that helmet because your brother tries to read your mind?"

"Yeah but he’s in a wheelchair so even steven!"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122296: Oct 31st 2020 at 7:05:12 AM

Cain Let's-Fuck-Some-Shit-Up Marko.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#122297: Oct 31st 2020 at 7:30:31 AM

The funny thing is that in the comics, Cyttorak (the god that empowers the Juggernaut through the gem) initially wanted to turn Charles into the Juggernaut.

Cyttorak decided to stick with Cain Marko though since Cain was pretty good at being Juggernaut.

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#122298: Oct 31st 2020 at 7:35:43 AM

What made Cyttorak think Charles was a good candidate in the first place?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#122299: Oct 31st 2020 at 7:36:29 AM

Imagine Charles Xavier, still in the wheelchair, but he's absolutely jacked. Just completely shredded. Just crazy ripped. I'm talking insanely buff.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#122300: Oct 31st 2020 at 7:37:08 AM

Presumably the combination of Charles' formidable Psychic Powers combined with the physical power of The Juggernaut.

There's actually a What If? story where Charles became Juggernaut.

Edited by M84 on Oct 31st 2020 at 10:39:11 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Total posts: 186,763
Top