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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#122026: Oct 16th 2020 at 5:06:56 PM

'On My Block' Actor Danny Ramirez Joins Falcon & the Winter Soldier.

While it is being kept under wraps who Ramirez will play, Heat Vision is told it will be a pivotal role.

Edited by comicwriter on Oct 16th 2020 at 5:07:20 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#122027: Oct 16th 2020 at 5:10:58 PM

Huh, I thought they were already resuming shooting. Is this just a case of an actor finally spilling the beans, or is production going along slowly enough they can afford to add new actors at this stage in development?

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#122028: Oct 16th 2020 at 6:01:37 PM

re: underplaying the Blip:

I'm disappointed but not really surprised. They did shy away from addressing any potential consequences (practical, for lack of a better word, and otherwise) of the Blip, after all.

The MCU has built itself on being a lighthearted family-friendly-ish series. My main question is ...why write the Snap (and Thanos, natch) into the series, and then portray the Snap as a big horrible thing, and then not address the consequences of the thing or its reversal? That breaks my Willing Suspension of Disbelief - that the world bounces back so quickly from the sudden doubling of the current population with little consequence. No economic problems or problems with resources as the economy has to support double the people, no political turmoil as people discuss policies enforced in the wake of the Snap and the five years after it, no social unrest as suddenly (most) people get their relatives back after five years of them being dead... It makes it seem like people on MCU-Earth aren't human, because they don't react like "real" people (read: the audience) probably would, sort of a behavioural equivalent of the Uncanny Valley.

If the writers weren't prepared to handle the impact of the Snap and Blip in a sensible way, then... why write them in the first place? Why not do something that doesn't involve the civilian population at large? Was this the logical progression of "more stakes", or something else that I'm not aware of?

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#122029: Oct 16th 2020 at 6:06:51 PM

They needed a big climax to say goodbye to their original stars. Surprising the world survived that event for five years, though.

Wake me up at your own risk.
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#122030: Oct 16th 2020 at 6:24:22 PM

I don't think it's because Disney wants to be family-friendly. Since the blip was reversed, there isn't really a whole lot of family-unfriendliness on the surface, because nobody who was blipped stayed dead. There is a bit of family-unfriendliness if the writers really want to dig into it - Far From Home actually did touch on blip-years infidelity as a throwaway gag - but there's no family-based reason to avoid exploring all of the day-to-day consequences of the blip altogether.

More likely, Disney just doesn't want to be weighed down by too much continuity. They just did a big old continuity-heavy season finale, and now they're starting a brand new phase where they've begun to leave the old guard behind.

I suspect the MCU will only ever bring up the day-to-day consequences of the blip when there's no avoiding talking about it (it'll be a big elephant in the room for a future Ant-Man, for example). Otherwise, we might see movies dealing with the cosmic consequences of the blip, but not necessarily the personal consequences of the blip.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122031: Oct 16th 2020 at 6:25:48 PM

There’s also not much stuff that’s come out since the end of Endgame.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122032: Oct 16th 2020 at 7:45:54 PM

Yeah. We were supposed to be starting the next phase with Black Widow, but real life put that on the back burner...

no wait. Forgot that Black Widow takes place pre blip (can't remember if it's pre Infinity War or post Infinity War though), so that wouldn't really deal with the blip, but a lot of movies that would have dealt with it have been massively delayed.

So how Disney plans to address the blip has yet to be truly seen. Far from Home only barely touched on it really.

One Strip! One Strip!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#122033: Oct 16th 2020 at 8:22:55 PM

Black Widow seems to be set between Civil War and Infinity War.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#122034: Oct 16th 2020 at 9:22:30 PM

My main question is ...why write the Snap (and Thanos, natch) into the series, and then portray the Snap as a big horrible thing, and then not address the consequences of the thing or its reversal?

Infinity War didn't bring up any of the countless reasons why Thanos' plan would never work, so I didn't expect Endgame to go into the effects at all either. The reason is obvious: the writers wanted the win condition for Endgame to be "the Avengers bring everybody back", so the consequences of the Snap in the film aren't articulated more than "people are gone and so everyone else is sad". It's to be assumed that if a movie brings up a problem of, for example, "the Snap caused massive starvation from all the disrupted supply chains", then it's expected to address or solve them by the end, or else the viewers are left wondering what happened to that issue and the ending would feel esoteric. Therefore, it never brings them up to keep the proverbial cat in the bag.

It leads to situations in Endgame like the Avengers building a time machine and a new Infinity Gauntlet all on their own, seemingly not informing or consulting with any world leaders or civilian governments on Earth or the galaxy or across the universe even though bringing back trillions would have enormous impacts on everyone. The focus is on the light adventure among friends, so anything outside that is intentionally never brought up.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 16th 2020 at 9:24:20 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#122035: Oct 16th 2020 at 10:57:23 PM

[up]The other reason is more simple: is pretty much the end of a era movie, they will focus in what people want and what it works, being detaild is the stuff you can do in novelizations, not in the movies proper.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122036: Oct 16th 2020 at 11:04:05 PM

I’d love if we got more EU material for the MCU

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#122037: Oct 16th 2020 at 11:21:34 PM

[up]I feel we need it because since Age of Ultron, the movie have being jumping quite a lot in status quo that didnt stick:

Ao U: Tony finally is retiring, falcon, wanda and vision join the team in a avenger base!

Civil war: said grouo only do something onces and them fight each other, so nearly everyone is a crminal and antman goes back to square one because he is a idiot*

Infinite war: because some shanigans who was right matter very little because thanos is finally here and....he won and the earth is snap.

Endgame: the avenger time travel and undid all the bad thing...except when they didnt it.

So yeah there is A LOT that is being unsaid.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#122038: Oct 17th 2020 at 5:41:55 AM

Maybe the repercusions of the Snap would be much easier to overlook in a real world that had kept going the way it was going in 2019.

Covid 19, in a relatively much smaller scale, changed society to such a degree that nowadays it's almost laughable to think an event that would wipe 50% of mankind off would leave it functional to such a level.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#122039: Oct 17th 2020 at 1:41:12 PM

Then again, the many casualties that happened in the first Avengers movie were barely referenced during the movie itself, and not a lot (or not at all? I don't remember) afterward. Granted, it was focused on New York, not the whole Earth or the whole universe, but in any case the amount of destruction that went on during the Chitauri invasion probably more than topped 9/11, and we know what kind of mark that one left in the real world.
I guess it's one of those cases where reality keeps looking like our own despite increasingly important differences (is there a trope name for that?), just as the MCU has been doing since superheroes appeared anyway.

Edited by C105 on Oct 17th 2020 at 10:41:47 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122040: Oct 17th 2020 at 1:51:25 PM

It’s related to the Reed Richards is useless trope i think

Anyway not in the movies themselves but the netflixes did a lot with the fallout of the battle of New York as did agents of shield a little. And you could probably draw a line between the battle of New York and project insight

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#122041: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:06:38 PM

Or you would, if not for the fact that the tv shows and everything they brought to the table, both good and bad are basically persona non grata now.

I blame Permulter....he's the one we're supposed to be blaming right?

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122042: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:10:57 PM

Even if they've been removed from consideration now, they were intended to, at the time, to fill in the gaps left by the movies and showcase how the effects of Avengers rippled out.

I'mma count it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#122043: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:14:01 PM

I was overall impressed with the tone of how people reacted to the Snap, but I couldn't help but be pessimistic because I knew that they would find some way to undo it and then act as though everything is okay now. Are Hawkeyes family going to notice something about their father is broken? What about all the people who committed suicide from so much grief? Far From Home playing it as a joke confirmed exactly all my concerns that the evolving world of the MCU exists through continuity jokes rather than actual exploration.

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#122044: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:36:15 PM

The problem with exploring the snap is that it's way too fantastical for most audiences to resonate with.

The big thing that the MCU has done right for the past decade is giving their main characters mostly-grounded character conflicts to resolve in parallel with the bigger action conflict: We can empathize with Tony Stark trying to atone for the sins of his past; we can understand that Thor has a lot of misplaced pride that gets in the way of his own success; we can see Steve Rogers' drive to help others come into conflict with his early rule-abiding nature; we can feel the weight of the Avengers' shame and desparation after they fought so hard to prevent the snap and lost every single key battle along the way.

Having a movie that explores the emotional consequences of the snap could be interesting as a high-concept drama, but it's one that would struggle to compel general audiences unless it was done really carefully. The sensation of "I lost somebody but they came back 5 years later" is not something that a lot of people have experienced. Using it as the emotional core of a drama wouldn't really hit a lot of people the same way that, say, Stephen Strange hitting rock bottom and having to rediscover himself did.

I can see maybe Ant-Man 3 using the plot point as a catalyst for "absentee father trying to reconnect with his daughter" drama. I can't really imagine that the MCU would ever try to use the higher concepts of snap drama as a driving, emotional force in their movies, though.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122045: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:38:54 PM

In fairness, Spider-Man is not the sub-franchise for a serious take on it. Its not all goofs goofs but it is jokier even then the Marvel standard. Plus, Peter and most of his supporting cast missed out on all of it so it didn't impact them as hard.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the upcoming MCU shows explored it more. She-Hulk would be a good place to explore a lot of the legal tangles that would result. And Hawkeye will definitely have to explore the emotional fallout considering its about Hawkeye and is set after Endgame.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#122046: Oct 17th 2020 at 2:55:54 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the upcoming MCU shows explored it more. She-Hulk would be a good place to explore a lot of the legal tangles that would result. And Hawkeye will definitely have to explore the emotional fallout considering its about Hawkeye and is set after Endgame.

Even then, I'd expect the snap to be non-essential to the drama.

For example, I do think the Hawkeye series will explore the guilt Hawkeye felt as a result of his dark period, and how that gets in the way of trying to emotionally reconnect with his family. In canon, that happened because of the snap, but the core emotional story of a man with PTSD feeling disconnected from his family could easily be told in a story world where the snap never happened.

It's kind of like the MCU Netflix shows had their drama sparked by the Chitauri invasion, but the Chitauri invasion itself was not important to their stories. All that matters is that Hell's Kitchen exists as-is for one reason or another; without the specific reason that Hell's Kitchen was shaped by an alien attack on New York, the plots of the Netflix shows would still be largely intact.

Edited by MileRun on Oct 17th 2020 at 2:56:34 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#122047: Oct 17th 2020 at 3:03:32 PM

Thats probably the best way to handle things anyway. Keeps things from getting too space whale

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#122048: Oct 17th 2020 at 3:06:09 PM

Again, a realistic take on the Snap would be far more devastating on society and potentially unrecoverable. We're talking mass starvation, martial law, entire governments and countries fallen into disrepair, and mass extinctions across all ecosystems.

The result was that either a) you downplay the effects of the Snap so bringing everyone back won't make things worse, b) keep it realistic and don't bring anyone back, c) keep it realistic, bring everyone back, but that doesn't solve the problems caused by the Snap and end the Infinity Saga on a borderline Downer Ending, or d) just use time travel to prevent the Snap in the first place, thus erasing people like Morgan who were born during the Snap.

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#122049: Oct 17th 2020 at 4:26:49 PM

And that's what I think is the main problem with the Snap and the Blip. They got written in to facilitate a big sendoff and a climactic battle, but the writers didn't think about the potential outcomes or implications, and now we have a situation like [up] describes, where every answer to the question And Then What? is bad either from a Watsonian or Doylist perspective.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#122050: Oct 17th 2020 at 4:30:12 PM

I feel like his wife would divorce him because he's not the Clint she married.

The legend has returned.

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