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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121701: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:55:21 PM

But he does get irreversibly injured.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#121702: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:55:31 PM

Even though Pete's involvement logically makes no sense, yeah, it was a great moment back then^^

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 4th 2020 at 10:55:45 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121703: Oct 4th 2020 at 2:00:48 PM

Yeah,the stakes are low due to them all being main characters,but OMG SPIDERMAN!

Somewhere, in an alternate universe...

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121704: Oct 4th 2020 at 2:02:14 PM

Damn, Steve

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#121705: Oct 4th 2020 at 2:07:44 PM

That can be said of most fights of the main characters against anybody else. Also in this case I agree that it was also quite obvious Steve was going to escape because the movie is not over yet.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#121706: Oct 4th 2020 at 2:12:26 PM

Yeah, I really do think that the Bucky stuff and the "Ao U consequences" stuff would have been better separated into two movies. As it is the movie lurches between the two plotlines and it's a bit whiplash-y.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121707: Oct 4th 2020 at 3:28:27 PM

I dunno, that came off as the point to me. Civil War, the film, isn't about the Accords or the Registration Act, or the Ultron Consequences, not really. The smart way they adapted all that stuff was just to make all of that the cause/excuse for antagonism in the movie.

Captain America: Civil War isn't a movie about Cap valiantly fighting for the rights of individuals to superhero. It's an "agent goes rogue" film in which Tom Cruise Cap's superiors tell him "no, you can't hero" and Cap learns/decides that only he can do X thing to save the day, and so has to fight his former allies to do the right thing. His focus the whole time is on Bucky, and the accords is only a thing that makes saving Bucky / stopping Zemo harder.

The flipside is that Zemo comes off as not really doing anything and having everything fall into his lap, because while he's the villain he's not really the antagonist of the film.

It also means that lines like "I'm trying to keep us from falling apart" / "you did that when you signed" don't hit so hard, because the Avengers are really falling apart due to the ideological differences so much as some are following different evidence than the others. Hell, half the people in the airport fight didn't even know wtf was going on. But I do prefer it to the alternative.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:45:58 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121708: Oct 4th 2020 at 3:43:49 PM

I definitely think the movie did a good job with the story that is an improvement over the comic (not a controversial opinion).

I do wish the MCU had time for a movie in between AOU and Civil War where the Avengers got along well with each other.

I am looking forward to more "heroes fighting villains" stories going forward and the potential of Thunderbolt Ross as a major antagonist leading an evil/antagonistic Avengers group (hard to say but it seems plausible in light of upcoming films and tv shows).

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121709: Oct 4th 2020 at 3:48:00 PM

It sucks that the Avengers team during that time only got like one tenth of a movie to shine. I loved the beginning, with the others teaching Scarlet Witch the ropes and their easy sense of companionship. Heck, I would've loved a film or even just a like a short about the split Avengers - Cap's team and Iron Man's team - struggling to stop some kind of villainy between Civil War and Infinity War.

It's situations like that which make me wish the Marvel One Shots were still a thing.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:48:40 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#121710: Oct 4th 2020 at 4:45:49 PM

I think Age of Ultron is the sort of missing domino of the whole franchise. The Avengers not getting along in their opening movie is to be expected, but AOU kneecaps the franchise by having their only full outing before they jack-knife into a brick wall be...also them bickering endlessly.

So when they're all in profound conflict over the remaining movies it rings more hollow because they never really got along for a full movie.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121711: Oct 4th 2020 at 5:09:02 PM

Some of them do. The thing is well Clint and Natasha, Bucky /falcon / Steve and Natasha or war machine and iron man seem to get along great. This doesn't really apply to the avengers as awhole.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#121712: Oct 4th 2020 at 5:48:55 PM

I really would've preferred if Cap 3 with the fallout of the Winter Soldier and onward got to be its own film, and Civil War be a separate Avengers movie, rather than an admittedly still pretty good Frankenstein that barely juggled the two. But unfortunately AOU, having dropped the ball like it did, necessitated Civil War to spend more time playing catchup than it should've.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121713: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:36:10 PM

That's the thing. I don't think Civil War was written the way it was because of Ultron. The movie doesn't really clear up anything unspoken by that movie, or follow up to it specifically. The Accords could have just as easily been the New York Accords and nothing would have changed.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 4th 2020 at 6:36:34 AM

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#121714: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:38:54 PM

Of course all that was thrown out a window, with the infamous line "Do you think that this A on my forehead stands for France!?" And in that moment he went from being Innocently Insensitive and Deliberate Values Dissonance to being a xenophobe.

Honestly, that line can be fixed just by changing the France at the end to Hydra.

Boom. Now he's taking a potshot at the Nazis. tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#121715: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:47:14 PM

It's a stupid line either way because neither HYDRA nor France starts with A. The least Cap could have done is pick a goddamn concept that starts with the letter he's pointing to.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121716: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:48:44 PM

What French or hydra thing starts with A ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#121717: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:52:44 PM

[up] A.I.M.?

I dunno. Ask Mark Millar. He came up with it...tongue

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#121718: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:54:52 PM

"You think this A stands for Adolf!?" would work, for example.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#121719: Oct 4th 2020 at 6:57:46 PM

Are you guys just forgetting the context around that line? Cap is mad at the idea of surrendering. He's saying that the French are cowards, and America isn't.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121720: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:01:44 PM

[up]

No. They are saying the Context doesn't help because portraying the french as Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys is not cool.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#121721: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:02:28 PM

Yeah, we got it. I'm just taking issue that even if you remove the xenophobic instinct in it (and Cap finding the need to dunk on the people he fought alongside for some reason) the line is still stupid on its basic level because it's a pretty nonsensical segway to point into the A in your head and ask if it stands for something completely unrelated to it. Saying "What do you think I am, Captain France/French?" is just as xenophobic but at least makes basic sense.

Captain pointing to his skull and saying "Do you think this A stands for Adolf?" is better because it dunks on Nazis and it makes sense (Adolf Hitler being not exactly known for his bravery and there is the fact he decided to kill himself solely to escape justice for his crimes).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121722: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:02:38 PM

From the looks of it I’d find Ultimates biggest achievement to be its art.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/8to6kb/bryan_hitchs_8_page_spread_from_ultimates_2_issue/

Seriously a Goddamn 8-page spread. How many times does Quicksilver appear on this image?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#121723: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:09:36 PM

[up][up]Okay, yeah, Adolf makes more sense. It just seemed odd to me to put HYDRA or AIM in that line when it's specifically about cowardice.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121724: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:09:48 PM

It doesn’t make much sense for Cap either since he would have fought alongside the French underground and wouldn’t have been thawed long enough to start internalizing war on terror foreign politics

For all the hay said about how ultimates Cap is Actually more realistic for a man frozen from the 40s he’s actually more like a 2000s poorly researched idea of a person frozen from the 40s

Because that’s what he is

Edited by Bocaj on Oct 4th 2020 at 10:11:34 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#121725: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:11:27 PM

I remember back then Wizard Magazine used to do the 'French are cowardly snooty stinkers' gag every freaking issue, so Millar was probably thinking he was pandering to the fandom.


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