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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#121676: Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:16:40 PM

There was that time he called Banner a sissy because he needed him to Hulk out to take on the villain.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#121677: Oct 4th 2020 at 7:58:20 AM

"Millar admitted to being shocked when people told him how Ultimate Steve Rogers made them want to join the army since the character was supposed to be a jab at that kind of American jingoism and xenophobia."

To be fair, Ultimate Rogers being a xenophobe was the fruit of flanderization.

Initially he was a person who had been raised with the values of the 40's and in fact, he used to be someone tolerant and progressive by the standards of the 40's.

Of course all that was thrown out a window, with the infamous line "Do you think that this A on my forehead stands for France!?"

And in that moment he went from being Innocently Insensitive and Deliberate Values Dissonance to being a xenophobe.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:02:01 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121678: Oct 4th 2020 at 8:04:05 AM

Ya know I'm not sure how effective a critique that is when you still portray characters like Cap as unstoppable badasses.

Especially in Ultimates 2 when they face a direct foreign countperart & pretty much anihilate them in a show of absolute superiority.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#121679: Oct 4th 2020 at 8:26:41 AM

Well, because that is America in a nutshell.

Pretty much nobody can compare to them, in a military sense.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#121680: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:01:43 AM

So just started playing PS 4 Spiderman again, and I just love Jared, J.J.J intern, and would like to see him in the MCU.

Do you think he should be The Faceless like the game or have him on-screen? The later I could totally see him be like Agent Stone from the Sonic movie, who also was awesome.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121681: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:16:01 AM

I assume he would be like Hoffman in the Raimi films.

I just want to see Robbie. It's been way too long since Robbie's been in an adaptation, let alone in a role with some actual substance.

I had the idea that Jameson could be kind of the Obliviously Evil Big Bad of the next movie, putting out a bounty on Spider-Man under the assumption that he's evil and nobody but him is doing anything about it (IE, early comics Jameson) with the other villains showing up to try and cash in. If so, Robbie could be his Good Counterpart who eventually convinces him to stop (cue another villain going Dragon Ascendant).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 4th 2020 at 11:21:26 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121682: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:18:48 AM

I hadn't made the connection before (I knew both were written by British writers but didn't completely process that both were Mark Millar) but it makes so much sense to me that Ultimate!Cap was written by the same person who wrote the infamous, "No, you move" speech for 616!Cap in Civil War.

Because I've commented previously on how that sounds like something a Right-Wing Militia Fanatic would say.

I also recall another troper (who I'd like to credit, but I forget who) commenting on how Millar thought Civil War was a gun control metaphor (in which opposition is a Conservative position) and other writers thought it was a War on Terror metaphor (in which opposition is a Liberal/Left position).

But yeah, it totally clicks that both are from the same writer, who has a Type 2 Eagleland view of America.

And to hopefully nip any debates in the bud on either the comics or film Civil War, Steve is or at least should be a kind of self-righteous Liberal, not a kind of self-righteous Conservative.

Edit - I'd really like to see Robbie. It wouldn't be totally believable, but I think you could do something where the Alex Jones!JJJ is actually the Jerk with a Heart of Gold JJJ, but has gone in that direction to try to salvage the Bugel. And after having a My God, What Have I Done? realization after the Sinister Six, he becomes more like his traditional version. But yeah, Robbie would work well as a heroic counterpart / Morality Pet.

Edited by Hodor2 on Oct 4th 2020 at 1:21:26 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121683: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:24:42 AM

Civil War was supposed to be an Ultimates storyline but Marvel let Millar port it over to the main universe.

Which goes some way to explain why everybody is a huge dick in it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121684: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:25:40 AM

Oh. That makes so much sense.

And now the student has become the master.

Edited by Hodor2 on Oct 4th 2020 at 1:25:54 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#121685: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:32:41 AM

Yeah, but it was the guy with the straight Ds at best.

Edited by Blueace on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:36:55 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#121686: Oct 4th 2020 at 11:51:21 AM

On the bright side, at least we got the Winter Soldier out of that.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121687: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:02:25 PM

That was a different writer.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#121688: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:03:20 PM

I meant the Winter Soldier exists because of the aftermath of Civil War.

The legend has returned.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121689: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:07:03 PM

No, the Winter Soldier arc was before Civil War, setting the stage for Bucky becoming Captain America after Steve was shot at Civil War's end.

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#121690: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:18:02 PM

You really could have had Steve being killed in any other adventure and it'd have worked just the same.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#121691: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:19:05 PM

In the comics, how did the mantle of Captain America end up getting passed from Bucky to Sam?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121692: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:34:29 PM

Got passed back to Steve, I think. And then he got turned super old

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121693: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:43:08 PM

Civil War was supposed to be an Ultimates storyline but Marvel let Millar port it over to the main universe.

Which goes some way to explain why everybody is a huge dick in it.

.....I never heard of this. It makes a large amount of sense, but....where did you read this? Cause I'm legitimately surprised I never heard of it before.

One Strip! One Strip!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121694: Oct 4th 2020 at 12:52:41 PM

I found this old article by Comic Book Resources that talked about it:

The big idea that evolved into "Civil War" was born while Millar and Bendis were out one morning before the summit. "We were out shopping for presents for our daughters and Bendis said to me, 'I don't like the sound of the crossovers they're talking about.' And he said, 'What if we do SHIELD versus the Marvel Universe?'" Millar explained. "I thought, 'Hrmm. It's kind of interesting.' Then he said, 'I've been setting up this stuff in Avengers, where the superheroes have to reveal their secret identities or SHIELD will go out and force everyone to do so.' I liked his idea, but I felt as if the whole superhero registration act thing had sort of been done in things like Watchmen and The Incredibles. I also felt SHIELD had been used too much.

"I said to Brian, 'I don't know. I think there is something there,'" Millar continued. "A project that Brian Hitch and I were working on as our follow up to The Ultimates was originally titled Civil War. I actually borrowed some of the ideas from that; brought them forward and I thought 'What if instead of SHIELD versus the heroes, it's the heroes versus the heroes? And instead of being the secret identities which has been done before maybe these guys are being asked to work for the federal government and some of them are agreeing to do it and other ones are not. It's an ideological split down the middle."

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:53:05 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121695: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:00:39 PM

In hindsight the Superhero Registration does sound like it fit the Ultimate universe more.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121696: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:04:49 PM

BENDIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

and also millar

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121697: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:05:34 PM

That's what I mean by "the student becomes the master" - I was jokingly referring to myself as the student and to Bocaj as the master, because that fact totally explains everything about Civil War (including for the record, Tony being an outright fascist under some of the writers).

For what it's worth, I think Marvel was generally in a grimdark frame of mind at around that time. Thinking for instance of a lot of the shit the Dark Avengers got up to.

Edited by Hodor2 on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:06:16 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121698: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:09:24 PM

Whenever Dark Avengers gets mentioned, I always think of those yaoi doujins about Daken & Bullseye.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#121699: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:41:31 PM

Was rewatching Civil War and ...wow, are the stakes in the airport fight low. It's all the main characters fighting, yes, but that means no one is going to die or get irreversibly injured because it's the main characters fighting. And so I don't care about Rhodey getting shot out of the sky because it's obvious he's going to be okay in the end.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#121700: Oct 4th 2020 at 1:44:59 PM

Yeah,the stakes are low due to them all being main characters,but OMG SPIDERMAN!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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