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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121476: Sep 30th 2020 at 4:10:17 PM

I found the feminist packaging intriguing, partly because we haven't gotten a real "girl power" superhero film in a while (if ever — Wonder Woman was definitely good but struck a very different tone, being a Gender Flip of Superman more than anything), and partly out of sheer joy at how many people it pissed off in the world. The angry ranting by all the Chads out there warmed my flinty heart.

Again, nothing wrong with WW. Loved it. Gal Godot nailed the part and Diana's empowerment was obvious.

What I loved about Carol, though, was that she literally couldn't be arsed with the condescension. Just bulled right through it, even though she suffered consequences for being so stubborn. Very much like Brie Larson who is and was a case study in shits and the not giving thereof.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:14:41 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#121477: Sep 30th 2020 at 4:11:11 PM

Admittedly this is part of what has me worried for this lady. It’s a whopper for her first role and you just know she is going to be examined head to toe for anything she may have said or done that can be exploited, especially from the people who would rather Ms. Marvel not be made. (You know, jerks).

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:13:51 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121478: Sep 30th 2020 at 4:31:25 PM

What we need to do is gather around her, with our fists held out, so that all the assholes trying to bum rush her run straight into said fists.

That's how we protect her from anyone trying to take shots.

...or for a more sane solution, just show our support, but reasonably so.....but just to be clear, since they are running into our fists, we technically aren't punching them.[lol]

....Also, feel free to wear sap gloves, brass knuckles and metal gauntlets....you know, for show.cool

Guardians of the Galaxy: The Guardians minus INCLUDING shrub Groot kill Ronan, Ronan kills the Other, Drax kills Korath, and Nebula and Thanos live.

Had to do some repair work on your sentence. But don't worry, it didn't require much. Carry on.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#121479: Sep 30th 2020 at 4:33:43 PM

Yeah, Groot Jr may have been just a twig at the time, but he helped, too.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121480: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:03:41 PM

Twist to the Letterboxd saga: Iman gave Captain Marvel the movie 2 stars, but clarified she genuinely admires Brie Larson herself. grin

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:05:01 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#121481: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:03:44 PM

Wait... does that mean that GOTG is the first movie where a (thecnicaly speaking) baby kills a man?

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#121482: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:19:46 PM

[up][up]Yeah in spite of a lot of things I do like Brie, she seems really cool.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121483: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:30:10 PM

Did we all forget Baby Groot has a body count in GOTG 2? He was the one who planted the bomb in Ego's brain. And plus this scene:

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121484: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:42:10 PM

Groot is an adorable murderer. He has no compunctions about killing whatsoever.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#121485: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:56:29 PM

Captain Marvel is the most well-done superhero origin movie in the MCU... which is also its greatest weakness as they stopped being interesting five years ago. I did find the film's aesop about gaslighting to be genuinely compelling and original, despite most of everything else about it being being polished-yet-bland, in the same way that the Disney live action remakes tend to be.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 30th 2020 at 8:57:09 AM

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#121486: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:21:24 PM

Having twist good guys was a nice change of pace.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#121487: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:38:56 PM

Also, if that same movie had been made even...ten, fifteen years ago, it would have ended with Carol voluntarily de-powering and beating Yon-Rogg in a fist-fight just because she's the hero.

The fact that she just blasts him is funny, but it is also very sharp storytelling.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121488: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:46:56 PM

Yeah. We all know Carol would have won that fight no matter what.

She did too. That's what makes her blasting him so great.

It was Yon-Rogg's hail mary: a last desperate attempt to salvage the situation that he likely expected to end with his death (either by Carol, or as he later explains, the Supreme Intelligence), but she just Lol!Noped him out of that.

Maybe he'd have put up a fight since they sparred together, but he likely would have lost.

One Strip! One Strip!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#121489: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:58:24 PM

...I think that's missing the point somewhat, but it doesn't really matter.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121490: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:10:24 PM

Yeah, the point is that Carol kept agreeing to play by Yon-Rogg's rules: control your emotions, fight "man to man", discipline and submission. It's all part of a play to establish himself as the dominant force in the relationship. By blasting him, she shows that she has no need of his rules and especially his approval.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 30th 2020 at 10:12:26 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#121491: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:11:48 PM

Yeah, that was a great moment. The hero needing to prove themself by battling their Evil Mentor on a completely even playing field is definitely an idea floating around in public consciousness, but upon thinking about it for more than a second the suggestion that Carol's victory "won't count" unless she holds back is ridiculous and Yon-Rogg is clearly only suggesting it because he thinks it would give him a fighting chance.

Would it have actually given him a fighting chance? Considering we've seen Carol No-Sell hits from Thanos and I don't think that's an "ability" that she can "turn off"... I don't think Carol could have lost a fight against Yon-Rogg even if she was trying to lose.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121492: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:12:39 PM

That's just the denouement, though. Sort of a fake climax. A lot of people miss that the real climax is Carol's confrontation with the Supreme Intelligence. That's when she unlocks her true power. At that point the conflict is over, save a few minutes of sparring and photon blasts.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#121493: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:29:59 PM

I think Carol could sort of "de-power" if she wanted.

But that's the point, fighting Yon-Rogg on his rules is silly.

"The hero gives away their advantage to fight the villain because it's the fair thing" has always been poor storytelling. Except for the times when the hero loses and learns that leaning into their strengths is a good thing.

Edited by ArthurEld on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:30:12 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121494: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:00:45 PM

I remember years ago someone expressing annoyance that Steve in The Winter Soldier actually fought Batroc on the latter's terms instead of just smacking him aside. Granted, that fits completely with Steve's character (this is a guy who in the comics is so honorable that when put on trial he hired Matt Murdock to represent the prosecution against himself), but Carol actually delivered the goods years later of not bothering with a petty demand for a "fair fight".

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 30th 2020 at 8:01:04 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121495: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:22:17 PM

I think Batroc gets a pass just because he was a Starter Villain. Though he does have a Small Role, Big Impact of sorts in the plot, he's mostly just there to show off the cool Cap and Widow stuff that Cap and Widow do.

I love him for it, though. Imo, more superhero movies should have that. Introduce the hero fighting a supervillain who doesn't have much stake in the story but would make a great showcase of the hero's abilities or status quo, and who otherwise wouldn't be adapted.

I think, for instance, the next Spider-Man movie should begin with something like a montage of Spidey doing heroics while Jameson narrates/misreports the truth. "THEY SAY SPIDER-MAN'S BEEN ROOTING AROUND IN THE SEWERS, LIKE A RAT!" - show Spider-Man fighting Vermin or Lizard. "SPIDER-MAN, RESPONSIBLE FOR A CITY WIDE BLACKOUT!" - show Spidey fighting Electro. "SPIDER-MAN'S BEEN SEEN CORRUPTING THE YOUTH!" - show Spidey rescuing some kids from a disaster. Etc.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#121496: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:24:47 PM

So basically every Spidey/Jameson dynamic then?

The legend has returned.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121497: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:26:09 PM

Yeah, but as an opening scene to the movie - to introduce the kind of tribulations Spidey is dealing with now, show off a few villains that otherwise wouldn't be adapted, and make some cool moments.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121498: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:36:22 PM

@Fighteer - I love you use of the terms "discipline" and "submission" (that sounds kind of dirty). I'd like to write an essay which would probably reference The Taming of the Shrew about how the movie skewers the sexist implications of Female Fighter, Male Handler.

In terms of the film overall, I"d rate it well above two stars myself, but I think there is a certain weakness to the movie because of the very clever and well-done twist involving the Skrulls. It creates a situation (especially noticeable in the trailers) where the movie has to pretend to be serious, because Carol and Nick think they are in a serious alien invasion story, and the movie is at its best once every one, the audience included, is in on the joke.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121499: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:36:27 PM

It rather adds nicely to the world-building as the hero is always fighting a villain of some kind.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121500: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:56:53 PM

I guess in fairness to Steve, the fight actually ends faster once he stops using the shield and just focuses on kicking Batroc's ass.

He gets a lot more aggressive when he's not focused on blocking.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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