TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121401: Sep 28th 2020 at 9:19:19 PM

Yeah. That's the impression I've been getting as well.

Which is a damn shame, because most of those shows were pretty good.

I suspect Agents of Shield is in the same boat, considering the last two season basically ignored the Snap (due to a complete lack of coordination).

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121402: Sep 28th 2020 at 9:24:39 PM

Agent Carter got a pass with Jarvis's cameo in Endgame because its production was more closely tied to the cinematic team, having been developed and written by McFeely and Markus, as well as an episode directed by Joe Russo. Thus why it's the sole TV show that's been acknowledged by the films.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#121403: Sep 28th 2020 at 9:30:29 PM

Re: crime in New York. Something that should be noted is that supervillains actually outnumber superheroes. Your average superhero will have a rogues gallery of at least ten villains. This can be mitigated by the hero joining a team like the Avengers or Heroes for Hire but not every hero would do that. Add in other factors like how not every superhero lives in New York, how certain heroes' adventures will take them away from the city or even the planet itself and some villains not so easily convicted and you've got a New York still infested with crime.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121404: Sep 28th 2020 at 9:58:36 PM

[up][up] Funny thing about that, there's apparently a rumour going around (and I do stress rumour, so take it with a grain of salt), that the upcoming Hawkeye show will feature Madame Masque as a villain. This notably would contrast with Agent Carter's portrayal of the character back in season two. So either a) Masque will not be Whitney Frost and will instead use her original name or b) Agent Carter is gonna be rendered non-canonical.

Or the rumours could be bunk. That's always a possibility. tongue

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 28th 2020 at 1:00:14 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121405: Sep 28th 2020 at 10:00:28 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if Masque appeared in the Hawkeye show considering she was a big part of Fraction's run and Kate's solo series, but the Masque that appeared in Agent Carter had little in common with the comics version anyway, having completely different powers, backstory, and motive, so it shouldn't be hard to keep them separate.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#121406: Sep 28th 2020 at 10:01:04 PM

As for why New York in specific, Marvel tends to operate on a premise that basically any highly urbanized place in the world has a high chance of being a complete fucking mess of supers duking out (particularly due mutanthood being a relatively common thing).

But more specifically Marvel has a recurring point that the Marvel universe only really turned full batshit "super" in WWII (Marvels and The Marvels Project being some of the works addressing that) and New York was at the forefront of that new age with its status as a battlefield for Allies and Axis with super-science amid New York and it being a prominent place for the likes of some of the first real "public" supers like Captain America, The Human Torch (the robotic one) and Namor. Basically WWII put New York as a fighting ground of WWII actors, and both sides developed a public super war that clashed in NY and that clash changed the city forever. Namor attacking New York (and the city being saved by a subsequent wave of a bunch of Supes converging in NY to stop him) tends to be also portrayed as a turning point for the city.

The MCU doesn't have such a fixed set of events, but Captain America (who retains his status as a predecessor to the "superhero age" in the MCU) is still portrayed as having his early years very much fixed in New York (and his first dramatic superhero moments in the streets of Brooklyn) so you could take a similar approach.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121407: Sep 28th 2020 at 10:03:05 PM

Agent Carter's Madame Masque was so very different from the source depiction of the character that they could easily make a modern version of the character - even with the same name - without contradicting the preexisting version at all.

Same with Agent Carter's Maggia, tbh.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#121408: Sep 28th 2020 at 10:30:15 PM

The character in question also already has two names: Whitney Frost and Giulietta Nefaria.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#121409: Sep 29th 2020 at 6:36:28 AM

Talking about the Netflix shows and remembering how good Jon Bernthal was, you know what I would like to see? Disney tackling The Punisher in the same way people want them to tackle Deadpool, minus the fourth wall breaking. Have him dealing with a situation where inexplicably the universe bend in a way that he isn't able to kill anyone to a ridiculously degree, much to his chagrin. Tackle him in a comedy/dark humour angle.

Could be something like the Archie Meets the Punisher crossover.

Edited by eligram on Sep 29th 2020 at 9:37:39 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121410: Sep 29th 2020 at 6:08:10 PM

I've thought before about doing that (well, basically the episode of 90's animated series where Punisher showed up) with Tom Hardy's Venom. But definitely the same idea of mining comedy from the character not being able to kill on screen because of the more family-friendly setting.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#121411: Sep 29th 2020 at 6:52:22 PM

Though, the MCU heroes kill people all the time.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121412: Sep 29th 2020 at 7:01:16 PM

Now I'm picturing Tom Hardy's Venom trying to help Peter after Mysterio framed him, but he keeps trying to eat people and just makes Peter look even worse by associating with him.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#121413: Sep 29th 2020 at 7:03:38 PM

Fair point. I mean even Peter has killed in Endgame (although I believe Word of God is that Thanos' creatures are non-sentient).

But at the same time, I can definitely imagine a scene where for instance Venom talks about biting the head off of someone, and Peter says nervously, "You mean you gave him a stern lecture, right?" And Venom says, "Yes. Obviously"

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#121414: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:20:57 AM

Have we seen any MCU character so far manifest a Thou Shalt Not Kill mentality? The closest I can think of was Doctor Strange, and he was rather lamenting that he had just taken a live. Spiderman seems to follow such a rule but never expresses it onscreen.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#121415: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:27:30 AM

Nope, there's no Thou Shalt Not Kill logic in superhero movies in general.

Shit, Superman straight up snapped a guy's neck.

Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:27:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#121416: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:29:38 AM

Batman tried, but still left a guy to die a fiery death and shoved a guy off a building.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#121417: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:31:04 AM

Heck, we've even got a trope pointing out the tendency of movie villains dying: Superhero Movie Villains Die

Disgusted, but not surprised
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121418: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:50:11 AM

I think every hero in the MCU has killed at least once, whether they wanted to or not. I think some of the Netflix heroes have upholded their Thou Shalt Not Kill policy, but I don't know. I haven't watched much beyond the first season of Luke Cage (2016).

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#121419: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:52:05 AM

Daredevil does have a rule against killing in his Netflix show but he did kind of kill a guy by accident. The show didn't really acknowledge it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121420: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:55:36 AM

Honestly, I think heroes should go less for Thou Shalt Not Kill, and try and focus on Thou Shalt Not Murder instead.

Like, they don't actively attempt to kill any one, but they do what they have to do to defend themselves and others, cause as many have pointed out, it's unrealistic that many heroes don't kill people unintentionally with a lot of the stunts they pull.

To put this in an MCU context:

And lets not even get into the shit Batman does, or a certain flag bearer and his unyielding (against skulls) shield.

One Strip! One Strip!
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#121421: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:00:53 AM

IIRC, didn't Batman kill a mook in Bv S? Like, when he was rescuing Superman's mom he threw a crate or something at the guy, and then there was a shot of the guy sliding back against a wall with his head bleeding.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121422: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:02:52 AM

Thats one of those things that just comes with the fantastical superhero world and why sometimes injecting a shocking dose of reality ensues can be really bad for the tone.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#121423: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:50:04 AM

The only superhero in recent movies that I remember expressing an actual Thou Shall Not Kill code is Collossus in the Deadpool movies, and then it's just to make fun of him and the code.

It's kind of disheartening, in the wide picture.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121424: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:51:47 AM

Because showing mercy to unrepentant, super-powered villains always works out so well for the heroes and society at large, am I right?

If we lay all of Joker's victims together and postulate that Batman could have prevented their deaths with a simple pragmatic act, does Batman not share some responsibility?

There's a convention in comic books, at least of the Golden Age, to maintain the polite fiction that nobody is actually killed by any of the myriad disasters and crimes that the villains commit, but we're long past that.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 30th 2020 at 12:54:06 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#121425: Sep 30th 2020 at 9:53:54 AM

Maybe, but getting too casual about the piles of bodies left behind isn't very comforting either way.

Wake me up at your own risk.

Total posts: 186,763
Top