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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#121276: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:33:43 PM

It's literally as simple as "more and more people are just popping up with superpowers, think it might be genetic". An Agents of SHIELD episode literally got away with "this guy shoots fire from his hands, not sure why, might be because he lived near this energy plant". That's all you need for a movie that isn't mutant-focused. Then when you get to an actual X-Men movie you go into the specifics of the X-gene. I'm genuinely baffled by the notion that mutants need any kind of big introductory build-up, the whole point behind the X-Men's initial creation was to avoid having to create convoluted explanations for why people have superpowers.

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#121277: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:42:48 PM

The problem isn't teaching audiences why mutants exist; the hard part is fitting all the worldbuilding elements that surround mutants (public fear of mutants, anti-mutant legislation, historical events that involve mutants) into a movie series that has gone on for twelve years without any hints of that stuff.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121278: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:49:31 PM

Civil War does lay groundwork for that sort of thing, what with revealing that the public is rather afraid of enhanced individuals in addition to being upset about the Avengers' freedom. Stuff like Ross referring to Banner and Thor as warheads to be monitored at all times, and literally everything that happens to Wanda, are fairly suspect.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121279: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:51:51 PM

I could see ross leading the charge in the discrimination. He is enough of a Hate Sink Jerkass for it to be likely.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121280: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:56:17 PM

He'll reveal that his full name is Thaddeus Henry Peter Gyrich Ross

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121281: Sep 22nd 2020 at 4:59:42 PM

Maybe they'll combine him with Stryker ?

Though would prefer honestly if Stryker actually was a Holier Then Thou Sinister Minister like in the comics. If it's too controversial for the films. A show would be able to handle it better.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lexicona Since: Feb, 2014
#121282: Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:00:35 PM

Personally, I think that the TV series take place in their own seperate continuity that was created at a divergence point starting in The Avengers.

Phil Coulson dies but is later revived: Agents of Shield, The Runaways, Cloak and Dagger, all the Netflix series

Phil Coulson remains permanently dead: The MCU and Disney+ series

This explaination would explain the discontinunity between the former series and the films and Disney+ series and why none of the characters from the former series show up at the big Battle in Endgame

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121283: Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:02:09 PM

I think agent cater would take place in the "main timeline" then

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#121284: Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:34:24 PM

What you do is, you have mutant characters pop up in a few different films. You don't even need to call them mutants at first. They're just people who have superpowers with no apparent origin. Seed in the idea that this sort of thing is becoming more and more common, and folks are starting to freak out about how far this can go.

Then, when you do a full-fledged X-Men movie, you pull some of those established mutants together into a team, and confront them with how, for mutants who aren't as powerful/well-connected/photogenic as they are, a lot of bad stuff is going down, and something needs to be done about it.

I'd say make their first opponent the Hellfire Club, who's running a mutant trafficking ring. No need to go full-on with anti-mutant lynch mobs or Sentinels rounding up people into camps. Just an organization that's exploiting mutants for their own benefit, with hints that the authorities who should be protecting the kidnapped mutants aren't looking into it too closely, partly 'cause the Hellfire Club lines their pockets, partly 'cause, "Hey, someone has gotta keep these mutants under control, make sure they use their powers to benefit humanity."

As for having mutants in a setting with other superpowered folk, I really think the simplest approach is to adjust how you define "mutant". Instead of having it refer to a specific kind of superpowered person, make it a catch-all term for "human being with superpowers". Under this definition, heroes like Spider-Man and Captain America would be mutants, too. Their bodies have been mutated, after all.

Edited by RavenWilder on Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:36:01 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#121285: Sep 22nd 2020 at 7:02:16 PM

Stuff like Ross referring to Banner and Thor as warheads to be monitored at all times

Except he's not exactly wrong in the Hulk's case.

Maybe they'll combine him with Stryker ?

Ross is a lot of things, but he's not a bigot.

Edited by Cortez on Sep 22nd 2020 at 10:25:56 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121286: Sep 22nd 2020 at 7:47:56 PM

Ross didn't want to monitor the Hulk so much as he wanted to take his blood to make more Hulks for military use...

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 22nd 2020 at 7:48:18 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#121287: Sep 22nd 2020 at 9:40:05 PM

Ross' main issue with The Hulk isn't that he's a giant super strong rage monster. It's that he's a giant super strong rage monster who isn't under his command.

This went further in the comics when it was revealed that Ross' real issue with The Hulk was that he coveted that power for himself. He wanted to be The Hulk. It's not a coincidence that his Red Hulk form originally looked like a palette-swapped version of Savage Hulk.

That's not even getting into the whole Obnoxious In-Laws thing.

Edited by M84 on Sep 23rd 2020 at 12:41:59 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#121288: Sep 22nd 2020 at 10:14:24 PM

It's always been an interesting conundrum in that the X-Men related material of Marvel makes up about 1/3 of the Marvel Universe, and in turn their classic stories stand largely apart from the rest of the Marvel Universe. This made the separation between the Fox Marvel and Disney Marvel movies almost natural, Wolverine may appear in just about anything but Cyclops rarely does. So even with the rights back at home base you're left with both "How do we restart a franchise with some beloved characters? and "How do we integrate a large cast of characters that are normally doing their own thing anyway?"

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121289: Sep 22nd 2020 at 10:17:15 PM

Shiiiiiiit Cyclops leading the Avengers would be dope.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121290: Sep 22nd 2020 at 11:21:58 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, that's another issue that the purchase has fixed. The X-Men property is really widespread and versatile, despite Fox literally only focusing on one thing and making like the same three or four stories out of it over and over again, and accounts for a lot of incidental characters, worldbuilding and parts of the Marvel setting that the MCU was just straight-up cut off from.

I remember it used to come up routinely back around Phase 2 that a lot of Marvel's minority heroes and villains - for example - were wrapped up in the X-Men license, for instance, even though most of them weren't even X-Men or largely connected to the X mythos at all, just by way of being mutants, or related to important mutants, or being on teams with mutant connections (a la Alpha Flight), etc.

It's basically the same thing they lost out on by not having the Fantastic Four. I could imagine that even without the X-Men, the Guardians property could have seen some use of the Shi'ar. Or if we had gotten stuff like (cough) Alpha Flight, and so on.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 22nd 2020 at 11:26:46 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#121291: Sep 23rd 2020 at 6:43:48 AM

I will always remain fascinated and frustrated by the fact that the X-Men franchise saw the comic book genre evolve around it while it was still playing with the same sort of Real Is Brown necessary adjustments for realism and almost pathological hatred of anything outside the tiny bubble of Magneto plots. It’s what made the Wolverine films (namely, The Wolverine and Logan) and Deadpool films stick out even more.

I’m pretty sure if a writer over there ever pitched the Shi’ar or Inferno they were probably laughed out of the building. Dark Phoenix and its limp-wristed, almost embarrassed way to insert aliens into the same old “Magneto vs human prejudice” narrative is proof of that.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#121292: Sep 23rd 2020 at 6:51:12 AM

Remember that "yellow spandex" comment in the first X-Men?

An MCU X-Men movie would have Logan rocking yellow spandex.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#121293: Sep 23rd 2020 at 8:07:18 AM

It most likely would have been 'spandex' the way the Cap Stealth Suit is *ACTUALLY* spandex in parts but made in a way that it doesn't look like the classic shiny neon bright spandex.

Superhero Costuming has come a LONG way since the first X-film. I have no doubt that the MCU design team can create a Wolverine Costume that is a respectful homage to the classic costume but still looks practical.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#121294: Sep 23rd 2020 at 8:09:23 AM

[up]Pretty much. It won’t look like the Vision Halloween costume, but the Vision on screen with cape is much closer to that look than a one piece leather ensemble.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#121295: Sep 23rd 2020 at 9:15:56 AM

IIRC the problem with the X-Costumes was Wolverine's cowl, they couldn't figure out how to make it work in live action since in some angles it looks great in others...not so much so shooting around it would have been way too much trouble. And this was...of course...way before CGI could have helped.

So Wolvie got the black leather number...then the other X-Men looked out of place next to him....so BLACK LEATHER FOR EVERYBODY!

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#121296: Sep 23rd 2020 at 10:12:10 AM

To quote Strong Bad:

"First, let's go straight to the costume. A move I'd like to call LEATHERQUEST 2000! People may buy that our character has radioactive powers or is from another planet, but a colorful spandex costume?! Are you crazy?! No audience will accept that! Nope, it's one color, head-to-toe leather for our hero! It just makes practical sense for someone who's going to be jumping off rooftops and doing a bunch of martial arts all the time."

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#121298: Sep 23rd 2020 at 10:22:32 AM

[up] Filming was wrapped up, wasn't it?

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#121299: Sep 23rd 2020 at 10:24:25 AM

Eternals also bumped from February to November 5th 2021, and Shang Chi will now release on July 9th 2021.

Edited by Zarius on Sep 23rd 2020 at 10:24:48 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#121300: Sep 23rd 2020 at 11:29:17 AM

This went further in the comics when it was revealed that Ross' real issue with The Hulk was that he coveted that power for himself. He wanted to be The Hulk. It's not a coincidence that his Red Hulk form originally looked like a palette-swapped version of Savage Hulk.

Not exactly, General Ryker was the one that wanted more Gamma soldiers and General Fortean was the one that obsessed over control.

Comics Ross always did what he did because he thought Hulk and the other Gamma Mutates were a danger to civilians, this was even used to show the difference between Ross and Fortean(who has no problem killing civilians, which Ross wouldn't do.)


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