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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#121226: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:14:38 PM

I think most of the Nuhumans as in the new Inhumans created during the push were killed off during Death of Inhumans leaving just the classic ensemble.

Which is massively unfair. Why are these guys dying for the crimes of the royal family? It's not the Nuhumans fault they were created for a dumb reason, but they (barring Kamala and Luna) sure get to be the ones who pay for it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#121227: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:17:02 PM

Wolverine debuting as a random nobody trying to take down the Hulk would be amazing,

He wouldn't be a nobody exactly, but a Department H agent.

Too complete the reference they should also throw in Wendigo.

Though The Leader can play into such things, and has in the past.

But he's more interesting when he doesn't, like in Immortal Hulk

Edited by Cortez on Sep 21st 2020 at 5:17:54 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121228: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:36:17 PM

[up][up] Weirdly, the royal family didn't seem to do anything that could be considered actually responsible for what happened.

The Kree just got a chip in their shoulder like they always do and decided to kill off all the Inhumans and then harvest the royal family for parts.

When that didn't work, they instead tried to get Captain Marvel to kill the Avengers so they could harvest them for parts.

And that's why Vox is a terrible villain.

@Mutants: I'd like if there were some references in other movies but mutants were introduced through a viewpoint character like Rogue was back in the day having their powers awaken and going on a journey to try to figure out whats going on with them.

I'd be good with Nighcrawler or Kitty Pryde. Nightcrawler is a little harder because he was like he is his whole life.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#121229: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:39:55 PM

Vox: *Drops his remote* TIME TO HARVEST SOME GENES!

Just Makima.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121230: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:49:25 PM

Wait Vox?

That character who was advertised as a forgotten original Avengers but was quickly revealed to be just a trick, Vox? Which series was that?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121231: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:01:46 PM

I think you're thinking of Voyager?

Vox is. Uh. He sure is a character design.

Forgotten Avenger was Avengers: No Surrender

And Vox was from Death of the Inhumans but also showed up for an arc of Captain Marvel.

Edited by Bocaj on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:03:08 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#121232: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:02:46 PM

That looks like a Dark Souls character

..

It is Dark Souls character!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121233: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:03:37 PM

ow-the-edge.meme

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#121234: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:06:59 PM

That character who was advertised as a forgotten original Avengers but was quickly revealed to be just a trick, Vox?

That was Grandmaster's daughter Voyager, who became a hero.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#121235: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:07:26 PM

So, they wanted to just be spiteful again, decided to genocide their sudden superpowers people, again, and left the job to a Spawn ripoff?

Edited by Blueace on Sep 21st 2020 at 7:08:28 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#121236: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:10:35 PM

They really shouldn't do "poof, now there's mutants" either literally or figuratively, though. Easing things into the universe is how Marvel has gotten its success so far, there's no reason to stop now.

I kind of feel the opposite. They totally can introduce Mutants in a movie about Mutants (ie. probably an X-Men movie), and have the fact that Mutants are only recently being recognized as a demographic be the impetus for the plot. That's how most movies work: the audience immediately accepts the existence of Whatever The Movie Is About. Really, that's how most of the concepts in the MCU were introduced too; there was no need to foreshadow the existence of Pym Particles to lead into Ant-Man.

The MCU eases things into the universe in the sense that it doesn't mash concepts together until they've been properly introduced, not in the sense that the proper introduction of each concept needs to be drawn out of multiple movies.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#121237: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:10:58 PM

It occurs to me that you could introduce Storm in a Black Panther sequal.

But I think that ship isn't particularly well liked

Edit: also Nightcrawler and his asshole demon dad would be interesting to introduce in a Doctor Strange film.

Edited by Whowho on Sep 21st 2020 at 11:12:18 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121238: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:13:15 PM

Right it was Voyager.

Well it’s hard to remember the names of nobodies. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#121239: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:16:51 PM

She's really only appeared in Avengers No Surrender and Avengers No Road Home but I quite like her and wouldn't object if she became a member of the team in an ongoing.

She has a neat design, a neat powerset, and she's tied into Avengers history

This is offtopic though.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#121240: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:35:43 PM

On topic, I can only imagine the mad scramble to get this out on time. Despite having the Marvel movies and Episode IX to ride, Disney+ was being seen as a one show service. Getting this out after Mandalorian Season 2 goes a long way towards alleviating that.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121241: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:44:51 PM

wild mass guessWanda will say: "No more New Mutants", ejecting it from the MCU canon forever.wild mass guess

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 21st 2020 at 3:45:18 AM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#121242: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:44:54 PM

I'm generally of the view that the existence of mutants in the MCU can't simply be declared, but all that really means is that "where were they all this time?" is a question the first movie that includes them will have to directly address.

My personal preference would be for mutants to have always been a thing, but so astonishingly rare that no one has really treated them as a distinct category of powered individuals. However something in the recent-ish past (it could be something already in the MCU, or an event we are made aware of in a future film) caused the mutant population to dramatically increase.

The mechanism could be that historically the mutant gene was only active in a tiny percentage of the people who carried it, but the event had environmental effects that caused a large percentage of the people with the gene to start manifesting powers.

This lets us "have our cake and eat it to" so to speak. We can still have historical mutants when there's a compelling enough reason to (ie Wolverine can still be centuries old, Magneto can still be a Holocaust survivor, etc.) but it's plausible why the MCU hasn't touched on them before despite having a large population of modern mutants.

Edited by Falrinn on Sep 21st 2020 at 3:45:58 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#121243: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:45:44 PM

It occurs to me that you could introduce Storm in a Black Panther sequal.

That would depend on a lot of things moving forward.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121244: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:53:54 PM

But I think that ship isn't particularly well liked

If T'challa is recast it probably won't happen because Nakia was well-received; if Shuri becomes the new Black Panther then it probably still won't happen because Disney wouldn't show Storm be openly into women.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 21st 2020 at 3:55:28 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#121245: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:55:08 PM

I think trying to do anything through Wakanda is foolish until they sort that out.

That being said, you know who Fox never used? Forge.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#121246: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:58:45 PM

I honestly like Vox’s design.

Sure it’s edgy but I find it fun. Slim black armor & some kind of red energy scythe, what’s not to love? tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#121247: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:59:04 PM

[up][up][up]I don't think they remembered that Chadwick Boseman died. To be fair, I didn't either, until I read your post.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 21st 2020 at 3:59:17 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121248: Sep 21st 2020 at 5:10:01 PM

They totally can introduce Mutants in a movie about Mutants (ie. probably an X-Men movie), and have the fact that Mutants are only recently being recognized as a demographic be the impetus for the plot. That's how most movies work: the audience immediately accepts the existence of Whatever The Movie Is About.

That's how self contained movies work, yes, but the ability to do this actually decreases when you're writing an installment within a universe with a previously established (and ongoing) continuity.

That there is already a universe in which the characters exists means that the movie doesn't just need to introduce the concept like a regular movie does, but also pull double duty explaining how the concept fits into the universe, why it was no longer present in the universe, and account for how it connects.

This isn't too hard for someone like Ant-Man whose world consists of a single recluse scientist who invented supertech. It becomes singificantly harder for something like X-Men with the premise that people all over the world have superpowers and everything in the world is changing into something completely different because of it.

This is, for instance, why you don't lead with the Avengers. They could have assumed that the audience will accept the existence of all these heroes and SHIELD and two different alien species one of which is one of the heroes', but it would've been likely to fail (hence DC's failure with Justice League) and make it difficult for the plot to juggle those concepts. Or to give a more recent example, it's one of the reason the newer Star Wars films' habit of occasionally throwing big new concepts at the screen didn't go over very well.

That's why the Marvel approach exists, and why it works. Gradually introducing larger scale, immense concepts in minor ways allows for both the universe to accommodate them, and for later movies to utilize those concepts without the need to make the universe accommodate them before telling the story they wish to tell.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 21st 2020 at 5:13:47 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#121249: Sep 21st 2020 at 5:15:37 PM

One theory I've heard is that Multiverse of Madness is going to have the X-Men universe collide with the MCU's as a way of bringing in Fox mutants, with Wanda's help, but that sounds to me like it would distract too much from it being a Doctor Strange movie.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#121250: Sep 21st 2020 at 5:17:57 PM

I don't think that's very likely, mostly because it doesn't look like the Dr. Strange sequel is using the term "multiverse" to mean what people think it means. They're basically using what the comics call "dimensions/realms," but calling it a multiverse because it sounds cooler even though that has very different connotations.

It's like when they called Heroes for Hire "The Defenders," and some people got confused for a bit about whether Hulk or Dr. Strange would be showing up.

A lot of people are thinking "they're going to go to alternate universes where X character exists / it's going to be an Enter The Spider-Verse situations" but the word we've gotten so far is more to the tune of going to the Dream Dimension and meeting/fighting Nightmare and stuff like that.

Granted, that's Marvel Studios' fault for being weird with the terms they use.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 21st 2020 at 5:20:31 AM


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