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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120901: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:36:48 AM

Luthor also tends to make speeches about how he would solve all the world's problems if Superman wasn't around holding him back. But Supes and everyone with a brain knows he is full of hot air.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120902: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:38:31 AM

In All-Star Superman, Superman said to Lex's face that he could have saved the world years ago if it actually mattered to him.

In the animated version, Luthor actually admits Supes is right.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120903: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:40:40 AM

Reed seems to be stronger on physics and engineering than biology so let’s not be too hard on him only in this one specific context

He can’t even cure Ben and that’s occupied a lot of his time (one wonders if he’s ever reached out to other marvel scientists)

Now we can totally dunk on Hank Pym since his field was biophysics. That seems like a cancer curing type of dude

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120904: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:44:58 AM

Hank and Reed have apparently used Pym Particles to help destroy cancer cells by shrinking down to literally beat cancer.

But Pym Particles are rare enough that this is not a practical cure.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 10:49:31 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120905: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:49:09 AM

All of the big size shifters naturally produce them now

I’m not saying steal their blood but I am saying that Scott Lang is desperate enough most of the time to sell his blood

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120906: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:49:41 AM

Marvel Comics Hank Pym might also not devote more energy to a cancer treatment for similar reasons as the Quiet Man. Hank's a misanthrope who doesn't really like humanity. Some part of him (the part that Ultron embodies) may think that humans don't deserve a cancer cure.

And in the MCU at least, Pym Particles are themselves dangerous. Probably don't want to expose cancer patients to them.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 10:50:53 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120907: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:52:28 AM

[up] How can they be rare: Hank, Jan, Scott, Scott's daughter Cassie, Nadia, Bill Foster, and even Hawkeye (as Goliath) have used them. I know that at this point they've internalized the power, but that would still imply Pym Particles are in short supply, which I find hard to buy.

I tend to perceive taking Storm away from her own series, goals, agendas and built-up identity and throwing her together into Black Panther so she could be T'Challa's trophy "strong black wife" as emblematic of all the problems with Hudlin's approach to BP, and typically my primary example when people respond "what's so bad about making BP as cooler than everyone else?" to some of Hudlin's other ideas.

It's a move that inherently cares less about who Storm is as a character than what she represents a status symbol. And Hudlin was like that with freaking everything.

I've always taken the fact that their marriage falls apart the moment an issue comes up that actually addresses something Storm is passionate about that T'Challa doesn't as an implicit dig at the expense the marriage had on Storm's agency as a character.

Ok, fair enough. That being said, you can make a mountain out of a molehill, and turn coal into diamonds with enough effort. I'm sure there was a way to keep Ororo's agency as a mutant and a hero in her own right AND keep that marriage.

Plus, the way they broke them up was kinda silly. T'challa says he had the high priest divorce them....only for Storm to point out HE'S the High Priest....or something along those lines.

And while your point about the dig at the marriage may have validity, someone who cared enough could have used it to actually add that depth to the relationship that it needed. It never had to be either/or.

Edit: I just noticed the above post says in the MCU. I was clearly thinking of the regular Comic MU when I started this post.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Sep 7th 2020 at 8:53:15 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120908: Sep 7th 2020 at 7:53:42 AM

I wonder if that’s why all his efforts in the lab started failing before his most famous breakdown

He desperately wanted to invent something to be as loved and renowned as the other marvel scientists but he also sort of low key hated people and didn’t want to invent anything useful

Real talk though, if Ultron’s misanthropy is Hank’s I give him more credit for those years he spent devoted to superheroism and saving the world

[up] Ta-Nehisi Coates sells them very convincingly as two people who do love each other very much even if their priorities are different enough that marriage wouldn’t work between them

Edited by Bocaj on Sep 7th 2020 at 10:55:38 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120909: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:02:14 AM

[up][up]That's seven people. Out of billions. And all of them are connected with the guy who invented / discovered them. So yeah, still pretty rare.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 11:02:56 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120910: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:02:55 AM

I wonder if that’s why all his efforts in the lab started failing before his most famous breakdown

He desperately wanted to invent something to be as loved and renowned as the other marvel scientists but he also sort of low key hated people and didn’t want to invent anything useful

Real talk though, if Ultron’s misanthropy is Hank’s I give him more credit for those years he spent devoted to superheroism and saving the world

So that would make him Kotomine Kirei before the latter even came into existence.

[up] Ta-Nehisi Coates sells them very convincingly as two people who do love each other very much even if their priorities are different enough that marriage wouldn’t work between them

That's good. Admittedly, maybe that's how things should have went instead of marrying them.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120911: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:05:12 AM

And in fairness Priest also gave them a shared past and portrayed them as in love but with their own lives to live

So it’s really just that Hudlin ignores that aspect, shoved them together, and said “now kiss”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120912: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:05:56 AM

[up][up]While Hank ended up building a robot that would act on his subconscious misanthropic impulses, Kirei instead would try to summon a world destroying abomination in the hopes it could give him answers as to why he's so fucked up.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 11:06:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120913: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:20:13 AM

Oh wait. Kirei wasn't a misanthrope. As far as I can tell, he didn't hate people. He just liked their suffering.

I know, that's kinda a Distinction Without a Difference, but I think it does count.

But damn, Hank had his demons huh? No wonder his MCU counterpart is so much more....cuddly.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120914: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:24:00 AM

Kirei was a sadist. He not only took pleasure in the suffering of others, it was the only thing that made him happy. But he also grew up with a moral framework that made him understand that hurting people like this is wrong. This is why he's so screwed up.

As I said before, MCU Hank is "just" an asshole. He's ironically more stable than Marvel Comics Hank since he doesn't give a shit about what others think of him most of the time. Comics Hank otoh can't stop worrying about what others think of him.

One explanation for why Ultron is so omnicidal is because he was "born" with all of Hank Pym's inner demons. He lacked the lifetime and experiences that Hank had that allowed him to more or less keep said inner demons in check. While Hank Pym's baggage grew over the course of his lifetime, Ultron was stuck carrying said baggage right from the start.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 11:54:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120915: Sep 7th 2020 at 8:59:50 AM

Comics Hank is a self-hating narcissist who projects his self hate onto others. MCU Hank is a regular narcissist who thinks people are morons. Both aren't great, but I never get the impression that MCU Hank hates people or is particularly bitter towards them, he just doesn't like them.

That said, MCU Hank also specifically has a foil to be influenced by in Scott.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 7th 2020 at 9:01:16 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#120916: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:01:46 AM

Wasn't it later revealed that 616-Hank has Bipolar Disorder?

Granted, superhero comics have a history of questionable depictions of mental health issues, but still...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120917: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:20:58 AM

In reading page after page of this conversation, I continue to be at turns amused and annoyed by the degree to which it is turning into the Marvel Comics thread, apparently in lieu of new MCU content to discuss. I hover over the "off-topic" thump repeatedly, reminding myself that it's harmless even though it's inane, and moving on.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120918: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:23:51 AM

[up]

......

Ahem. So, who's looking forward to Thor Odinson and Jane Thor teaming up and hammering things in the face? It's gonna be fun.

And no, I didn't just say that because the above post made me decide to help get things back on topic. No sir.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#120919: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:24:18 AM

[up][up][up] Man, have you ever read Heroes in Crisis? If not, just spare yourself a lot of pain.

So back to the MCU, man, i think it's a waste that Peter never interacts with Cap more. Like their themes resonate a lot more.

[up] Got you covered.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 7th 2020 at 9:24:43 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#120920: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:32:53 AM

"Where ya from?"

"Queens."

"smirks Brooklyn."

-squeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#120921: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:46:05 AM

I keep seeing a rumour popping up that Elizabeth Olsen suffered some Internet backlash to the point that she had to deactivate her accounts on social networks, all this because she failed to post something about Chadwick Boseman's death. I have not taken the time to check if this was true, but if it is I can't help finding this a little stupid (the backlash, not Olsen disabling her accounts).

Edited by C105 on Sep 7th 2020 at 6:47:24 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
SapphireBlue Since: Jan, 2001
#120922: Sep 7th 2020 at 9:51:01 AM

There is a trend towards using people’s social media as the sole indicator of what they do or don’t care about, so it wouldn’t surprise me.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#120924: Sep 7th 2020 at 10:05:58 AM

Fuck really?

Like this is seriously petty.

A man died of a horrible disease and people are using this as an opportunity to bully someone? Goddamn it, I’m going to take a break from the internet.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 7th 2020 at 10:07:07 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#120925: Sep 7th 2020 at 10:09:06 AM

Part of me thinks this actually click bait reporting and no actual harassment has taken place

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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