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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#120851: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:52:40 PM

"partly decided"

Again, no. We can't bring non-film justifications for things into the MCU, especially when they directly contradict what we actually saw or what we've been informed by Word of God.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#120852: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:55:45 PM

The problem was that she needed chemotherapy to treat cancer (...) Jane during her tenure as Thor decided that wielding Mjolnir and doing good as a superhero was Worth It even if it meant dying of cancer.

Well I got to ask: are there no better treatment options available in the world full of giant robots and alien symbiotes and nanites that cure blindness Marvel universe for Jane to use? Because I was under the impression she was refusing it.

Mjolnir's ability to heal being so specifically detrimental and the circumstances of Jane wielding are weird to me, and I think the MCU version would be better off writing it out, or at least writing it differently. Like, she's dying of cancer but Mjolnir is a walking stick that gives her superpowers, not the thing that's actually killing her. That's a terrible example but I already like the idea of it just being a dope, superpower-granting cane better.

EDIT: On the other hand given what's happened recently writing out Jane's cancer might not be the best idea. I would definitely alter how Mjolnir works so that it's not Blessed with Suck.

Edited by FOFD on Sep 6th 2020 at 8:11:12 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120853: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:14:15 PM

[up]Just because the Marvel verse has a lot of scifi crap in it doesn't mean there's magical cures for cancer available. That's not how technological progress works.

Let's not forget that the original Captain Marvel succumbed to cancer.

And no, Jane wasn't refusing other treatment options. Chemotherapy really was the only treatment she had available.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:17:46 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#120854: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:17:01 PM

I highly doubt they'll write Jane's cancer into Thor 4.

It would just be too much stuffed into one movie, given everything else that's going to happen. And I think the writers will be smart enough to realize that.

Edited by ArthurEld on Sep 6th 2020 at 8:18:00 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120855: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:17:52 PM

Besides, even if there were a magical means to cure cancer, it'd probably come with a price. That's part of how magic works in general in the Marvel verse - you want something, you gotta pay for it.

You want to save your aunt from dying even when she's ready to go? Gotta give up your marriage. (Peter Parker)

You want to save a kid from dying of a brain injury and your hands are too messed up to do emergency surgery? Gotta make a deal with a demon to heal your hands, with the price to be decided later. (Stephen Strange)

Jane Foster's been around enough magical crap to be savvy about this.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:20:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120856: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:24:36 PM

Didn't Reggie Hudlin infamously make it canon to 616 Marvel that Wakanda had the cure for cancer but was withholding that from the world? Or did someone make that into Canon Discontinuity?

Also damn is that Harsher in Hindsight now...

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 6th 2020 at 8:25:51 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#120857: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:26:45 PM

[up] I was trying to forget that last bit.

But even ignoring RL reasons, that shit is not sympathetic at all.

Like there was a reason why Killmonger had legit grief against Wakanda.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 6th 2020 at 8:27:08 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#120858: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:28:00 PM

I recall Hudlin did a lot of damage to the BP brand.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120859: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:29:45 PM

Norman Osborn had a cancer treatment too...but being Norman Osborn he only used it to try to kill Deadpool (his Healing Factor actually needs his cancer for it to work).

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:32:53 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#120860: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:29:52 PM

[up][up] As i recall, he was the guy who made it so that getting the Black Panther fruit involved a wrestling contest.

And retconned one meeting with Captain America so that Black Panther beat the shit out of him.

[up] If Osborn was smart, he would have used it to fix his dying PR.

But instead decided to kill his son for ratings.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 6th 2020 at 8:30:24 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120861: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:31:55 PM

Osborn is smart, but he's also a really screwed up and selfish person.

Fantastic Four villain Quiet Man also developed a cure for cancer, but he destroyed it since he realized he didn't actually want to save people's lives.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:33:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120862: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:32:54 PM

...oh come on!

...even if you don't care about people, you'd think he'd still want the prestige and money that would come with it!

That's just cutting off your nose to spite your face!

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120863: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:33:30 PM

Quiet Man outright wanted more people to die - he figured why should they be happier than him? He was a complete misanthrope.

This is the same guy who developed a murderous grudge on Reed Richards and became a villain who endangered the entire planet...just because he had an unrequited crush on Sue Storm.

Quiet Man: Oh, I did cancer and then decided there were too many people in the world and why should they be happier than me? So I destroyed the cure!

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:37:10 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#120864: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:36:31 PM

How many villains became villains because they were jealous of Reed?

See? It's not Tony only.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#120865: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:38:14 PM

There's an issue with Sauron that delves into that too.

Speaking of Thor 4, though, who do we think the villain will end up being? Thor doesn't have the deepest rogue's gallery but if we embrace the space aspect of it (with the Guardians being at least somewhat present), that gives them a bigger list of options.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120866: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:38:21 PM

[up][up]

Oh. Well ok. That makes sense.

I mean, if you just hate everyone, at least there's some logic to it.

I mean, that's still a horrific thing to do, but hey at least it kinda makes sense.

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#120867: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:38:48 PM

Hudlin did immense damage to Black Panther. It was bad. Really, really bad, and the fallout was just as bad.

As for misanthropes, lot of those in Marvel.

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:39:42 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120868: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:39:09 PM

[up][up][up][up]Doctor Doom, The Wizard, Quiet Man...there was also Ricardo Jones from the story "This Man...This Monster!" though he ultimately realized Reed Richards was a truly selfless man and sacrificed himself to save him.

There's an issue with Sauron that delves into that too.

Spider-Man: You can rewrite DNA on the fly, and you're using it to turn people into dinosaurs? But with tech like that, you could cure cancer!

Sauron: But I don't want to cure cancer. I want to turn people into dinosaurs.

...even if you don't care about people, you'd think he'd still want the prestige and money that would come with it!

Another thing about the Quiet Man is that he actually wouldn't want those things even if he wasn't a misanthrope. He was already incredibly wealthy due to all of the businesses he created. And as for prestige...his whole shtick is that he kept changing identities so often that he had forgotten his original name and appearance. Even in his debut, he was using an impostor as the public "face" for his latest company.

He just wants to live a quiet life.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:53:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120869: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:53:02 PM

Fantastic Four villain Quiet Man also developed a cure for cancer, but he destroyed it since he realized he didn't actually want to save people's lives.

There's also Sauron - not to be confused with nigh identical villain Stegron - who could have cured cancer but decided not do, because he wanted to turn people into dinosaurs instead.

Sorry, it's obligatory.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120870: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:53:29 PM

As for misanthropes, lot of those in Marvel.

Not all of them are villains either. Hank Pym's a misanthrope, but he's usually able to keep it in check. The robot he programmed with his brain patterns otoh...

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 11:53:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120871: Sep 6th 2020 at 8:56:15 PM

No one really likes Hank either, must be a pattern.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120872: Sep 6th 2020 at 9:05:27 PM

In the MCU, that's definitely true. Only his wife Janet and his successor Scott actually like him. His daughter Hope of course loves him, but she didn't really like him for most of her life.

In the Marvel comics, a lot of people did like Hank...but Hanks' self-loathing was such that he projected it onto them and he convinced himself that they hated him. His misanthropy was in part him projecting his own self-hatred onto all of humanity. In Rage of Ultron, part of Ultron's Breaking Speech towards Hank was pointing out how every time someone actually tried to show Hank love, it led to Hank resenting them for it. Because deep down, Hank could never really believe anyone could love him. Ultron goes so far as to claim that the reason Hank's never successfully destroyed Ultron for good was because Hank wanted Ultron to wipe out humanity.

Marvel Comics Hank Pym is kind of messed up. MCU Hank Pym otoh is just kind of an asshole.

Edited by M84 on Sep 7th 2020 at 12:10:47 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120873: Sep 6th 2020 at 9:43:39 PM

Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther run was probably THE worst case of canonical Character Shilling ever.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#120874: Sep 6th 2020 at 9:46:46 PM

There’s also marrying him off with Storm because she is the most high-profile female black character in Marvel.

Was that romance actually developed?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#120875: Sep 6th 2020 at 9:48:50 PM

[up]No.

Hudlin is why I have no faith in the Milestone relaunch, but that’s another story. It is a testament to how little comics are followed, and the MCU’s own writers that Black Panther became as big as it did after his tenure.


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