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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#120826: Sep 6th 2020 at 11:43:17 AM

His brand of selfish, arrogant prick leads him to butt heads with anyone he worked with in his own movie, even after his potentially fatal injury.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#120827: Sep 6th 2020 at 11:45:02 AM

So basically, the reason he can't use Mjolnir is because he's a less intense version of Tony.

The legend has returned.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#120828: Sep 6th 2020 at 11:51:26 AM

I think its because he uses magic and the hammer is also magic

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#120829: Sep 6th 2020 at 12:03:10 PM

True.

Magic must defeat Magic

Edited by miraculous on Sep 6th 2020 at 12:03:23 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#120830: Sep 6th 2020 at 12:32:19 PM

I think there's more to being worthy of Mjolnir than just being a "good" person. Doctor Strange isn't much of a warrior the way Thor and Captain America are.

I'm excluding Vision on the grounds that, let's be real, it probably was his synthetic nature bypassing the enchantment. He doesn't even call down lightning with it or summon it from far away the way a "registered user" can.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#120831: Sep 6th 2020 at 1:12:09 PM

Just a thing

"Peter's line there is a line fed to him by Tony, that can easily describe Tony himself, which handily gets Peter not to ask questions that would have him realize Cap's philosophy falls far more in line with the "with great power comes great responsibility" belief Peter had already espoused (which caused Tony's own guilty look in that scene."

Oh you are right, im just saying that if you take ultron as unfettered Tony them his opinion about cap(being a weapon who need to justify is own existance) could also reflect tony opinion, which make the event in civil war in a kinda intersting light.

Tony pretty much see cap as soldier who need wars to feel right and if he cant find something, he will create it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#120832: Sep 6th 2020 at 3:24:20 PM

I feel like Strange might pick it up (if his arrogance and unresolved issues with working with others don't do him in) but again, it depends if the Mjolnir has some built-in mechanics to counter the fact his hands are permanently crippled otherwise it'd be very hard for him to actually wield it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#120833: Sep 6th 2020 at 3:46:23 PM

It occurs to me that the capacity for self-sacrifice may play an important part in judging whether someone is worthy, given that Thor became worthy after he decided to sacrifice himself to let his friends and the Earthlings live.
This would make Cap worthy from early in his live, given that scrawny Steve Rogers did not hesitate to jump on a live grenade (see also his discussion with Tony in Avengers about lying on a barbed wire to let others go through), and would also make sense for Vision since he was ready to sacrifice himself to stop Thanos from getting the Mind stone.
Funnily enough, this would also make Endgame Nat worthy, but I'm not quite sure who else would be ready to lay down their lives for the greater good. At least Tony in his last moments may have been too.

Edited by C105 on Sep 6th 2020 at 12:48:11 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120834: Sep 6th 2020 at 3:50:10 PM

Tony did fly a nuke through a portal.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#120835: Sep 6th 2020 at 3:54:54 PM

Clint was pretty ready to sacrifice himself, too.

I assure you, I'm perfectly trustable person
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#120836: Sep 6th 2020 at 4:11:47 PM

Well, we have to see thor comic influence, for all about nordic mythos, thor is closer to arthurian and sheskieprian narrative with Mjolir being closer to excalibur.

I will said the hammer is to be pick up for those who put the well being of their place and their people a head on their own, odin take that from thor when it was clear is bloodshed was clouding his judgment, I will said cap have not just a self sacrifing nature but belive deeply in his home in a good way.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#120837: Sep 6th 2020 at 4:17:32 PM

I think major parts of worthiness are:

  • knowing when to use force, when not to, and how much force to use
  • humility to admit wrong or lack of ability
  • general wisdom of judgment or willingness to seek appropriate counsel
  • initiative to lead and decide fairly, not just in war, but in peace as well

All of which were lessons Odin needed Thor to learn by the end of his first film.

On another note, Strange having his own magic should have nothing to do with his ability to be worthy or use the Hammer, given everything we know of Asgardians. And we see with Stormbreaker that one can derive the strength to wield the hammer from the hammer itself. And both hammers rejuvenated Thor's vitality.

I've already wondered if Heimdall could wield it, but what of Frigga?

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#120838: Sep 6th 2020 at 5:18:41 PM

I have a theory that one of the criteria the hammer has for determining who's worthy is whether they've got royal blood. It's not the sole factor, but it does make you look a lot better in Mjolnir's eyes, which is why Thor can be worthy despite his myriad character flaws, even as others are rejected.

Cap can wield Mjolnir because he's such an Ideal Hero, it makes up for him being of peasant stock. And Vision could wield it because, as an artificial lifeform, he's outside the nobleborn/commonborn paradigm, and so was judged purely by his character.

Edited by RavenWilder on Sep 6th 2020 at 5:19:13 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#120839: Sep 6th 2020 at 5:20:58 PM

Or maybe that has nothing to do with it, and his character flaws are indicative that one doesn't need to be literally perfect to wield the hammer, despite Fan Wank.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#120840: Sep 6th 2020 at 5:24:49 PM

I think a better explanation overall is that the hammer itself has some form of agency, and recognizes the value of who needs to wield it. It aligns itself to Thor because he has proven himself, but during the AOU party decided not to let Steve lift it because that would have caused animosity between them competing for master of Mjolnir. That would explain both Vision later in the movie and Steve in Endgame as ego was put on hold in those moments, and instead was used to show humility.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120841: Sep 6th 2020 at 5:25:51 PM

Avoid being a reckless warmonger and being a self-destructive mess might be in the list. After all, the whole idea was to teach Thor how to be a good king and to protect the peace and prosperity. It might be along those lines.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120842: Sep 6th 2020 at 6:45:33 PM

What exactly it means to be "worthy" is deliberately vague, even in the comics.

Heck, for a while Thor couldn't lift Mjolnir because he was feeling a lot of self-loathing at himself and at gods in general for being Jerkass Gods.

He's also starting to struggle to lift Mjolnir again (though he still can lift it) due to the pressures and stress of being the new All-Father.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 9:46:36 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#120843: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:30:12 PM

Self-sacrifice being the requirement... I guess that explains Jane wielding it, but I hope the movie abandons the idea and just gives her Thor's power via convenient, Smallville-esque lightning strike.

  • refuse life-saving technology and magic that can treat cancer
  • you are now worthy of the power of Thor

Edited by FOFD on Sep 6th 2020 at 7:32:48 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120844: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:32:20 PM

[up]That's not it. The problem was that she needed chemotherapy to treat cancer. But since chemotherapy is technically radiation poisoning, Mjolnir "heals" the chemotherapy every time she transforms, undoing it.

Jane during her tenure as Thor decided that wielding Mjolnir and doing good as a superhero was Worth It even if it meant dying of cancer.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 10:33:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#120845: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:33:33 PM

It’s weird how after all that time spent as Thor, she still had cancer in the end.

You’d think all that Godly energy would heal her a bit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#120846: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:33:40 PM

I know I just had an explanation of "Magic A" Is "Magic A" in the Marvel Universe, but like...

...why can the magic god hammer cure radiation poisoning but NOT CURE WHAT THE RADIATION POISONING IS SUPPOSED TO BE CURING.

GRRH.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120847: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:34:20 PM

"Magic" healing is surprisingly sparse in the Marvel comics.

[up]The difference is that cancer isn't technically a foreign disease or poison. It's a mutation. Mjolnir specifically eliminates poison, and cancer isn't poison.

Exact Words are pretty important especially when it comes to magic.

Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2020 at 10:37:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#120848: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:42:16 PM

The difference is that cancer isn't technically a foreign disease or poison. It's a mutation. Mjolnir specifically eliminates poison, and cancer isn't poison.

Doesn't change the fact that cancer is the absolute worst thing in the world to deal with... tongue

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#120849: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:47:30 PM

[up]Nobody said otherwise...?

Disgusted, but not surprised
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#120850: Sep 6th 2020 at 7:49:18 PM

Speaking, do you think they'd actually give Jane cancer in Love and Thunder, or just skip over that part to the "Jane has Thor's powers now"?

I haven't read the original storyline, so I'm not sure how well the comics depicted that issue. It might be too heavy for a more comedic-style film, but I know Waititi can handle dark subject matter in a humorous and meaningful way.


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