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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#120076: Aug 12th 2020 at 7:18:00 AM

They could handwave her being able to beat Thanos so handily as something to do with the infinity stones being there, given her power originated from one. For that matter, maybe her powers will weaken in general with the infinity stones gone.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120077: Aug 12th 2020 at 7:54:28 AM

The issue with Captain Marvel is that she pulled a No-Sell on Thanos. Future movies would either have to be set in the past, be highly entertaining in how she plows through oposition, or have the stakes revolve around personal conflict that can't be solved by outpunching it.

Or have threats that remain threatening without without express physical advantage.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120078: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:01:34 AM

What do you do with a Flying Brick? Make them deal with politics or similar situations that aren't black and white or that can't be solved by punching and blasting. If they do try blasting first, hit them with Nice Job Breaking It, Hero!. Sometimes Cutting the Knot doesn't solve the problem because the knot was holding something important together.

Carol's main weakness so far is that she's hot-headed. She thinks with her fists, or her photon blasts. She flies off on a quest without fully understanding the situation. Now, the climax of the first film pulls a bit of a Girl Power Aesop by having her shut down a patriarchal mansplainer who tells her she has to keep her emotions in check, and that's totally fine, but that doesn't mean she should go off half-cocked all the time. There must be a balance.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 12th 2020 at 11:04:58 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120079: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:07:23 AM

I actually gave my theory. Carol absorbs energy, and the stones probably passively give off some energy (especially when they are in the gauntlet). She was absorbing the energy of the very thing powering Thanos.

I should also note that, barring his failed headbutt (when she was in direct contact with the gauntlet), Thanos was still tossing her away every time she tried to stop him). Carol is super strong (and is apparently the strongest in the MCU, surpassing Thor), but I don't think she's necessarily stronger than the Mad Titan.

As a final note, it's been shown that those powered by an infinity stone are the bane of gauntlet wielders and other stone users (since they can't protect themselves from other stones) as Wanda also proved. Thanos was going up against a very hard counter in Carol. Had he not caught her off guard by using the power stone, she'd have eventually beaten him I think. Then again, if he'd been more focused on fighting her than using the stone, maybe things would have been different.

One Strip! One Strip!
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#120080: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:25:55 AM

[up][up] Like Captain America: Civil War, but the film doesn't have an identity crisis about being Avengers 2.5 or a Captain America film? I'd quite like that.

Incidentally, I still feel like Civil War should have split into Avengers: Civil War and another Cap movie to better showcase its plots. As it stands, the "the Avengers blow up too much stuff" plot only serves as a reason to split the group, and also for for Cap to go look for Bucky because hey, he's already got people who want to see him succeed on his half-team, and he's also unhappy with the other half-team because of things that happened in Captain America: The Winter Soldier giving him a general distrust of SHIELD/governments in general, so why not just leave? It's a good reason, but both plots really suffer from it, the first one more noticeably because Tony's team is now hunting Cap for helping Bucky rather than any Accords-related consequence. (The airport fight deserves another post all on its own.)

I think it's rather disappointing that the movie puts the team in proverbial hot water, even if that hot water is flavored with a teabag of stupid, and then yoinks them out of danger of consequences because it remembered it's a Captain America movie in the middle. (Seriously, a car bomb at the UN? Wouldn't the UN have even more protections in this universe given the existence of supervillains?) And then the consequences of the damage the Avengers have caused gets ignored because we went straight to Thanos.

Edited by Altris on Aug 12th 2020 at 8:29:36 AM

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120081: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:29:02 AM

One of the reasons people have been suggesting the next villain be a more cerebral enemy (rather than a physical one) is to deal with that issue, as well. Someone Carol can't beat just by punching in the face. Maybe even someone Carol can't even find to punch in the face in the first place. Or if we're going powerful enemies, an enemy who uses a kind of power that Carol doesn't have the same advantage against.

I've been rereading the Captain Marvel comic ever since someone asked about it here, and another way that series gives Carol threat is by engaging her in massive fleet battles with tons of things going on that not even she can fully account for all at the same time, requiring her to need backup and making it so that the battle can actually go out of hand if something goes wrong.

I'm also gonna go down as disagreeing with the idea that epic/powerful characters can't be made interesting on Earth. Earth is a pretty epic place, should the writers choose to make it so.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 12th 2020 at 8:30:32 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120082: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:35:42 AM

Gregory Sallinger from the final Jessica Jones Season was a great villain in that regard.

Jessica could've snapped his neck at any second, but he was running mental circles around her.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120083: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:40:00 AM

Think also Ant Man and the Wasp where beating the villain wasn’t the point

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120084: Aug 12th 2020 at 8:46:29 AM

[up][up]

Eh. Sallinger was good, but not that good.

The only reason he ended up facing off against Jessica is because he was a bit too trigger happy with his knife (he'd meant to stab someone else, but Jessica was the one who opened the door and he attacked immediately).

One Strip! One Strip!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120085: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:08:12 AM

Heck, even in Captain Marvel, the Kree fleet wasn't the main threat. It was a Curb-Stomp Battle once Carol realized her full power set. The actual threat was her programming at the hands of the Kree Supreme Intelligence, and that wasn't a battle she could win by blasting it... specifically, blasting it was only an option after she freed herself of the programming.

Carol's arc in the film is figuring out who she really is. Everything else is special effects.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:09:26 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#120086: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:39:40 AM

[up]x5: Dovetailing off that line of thought, Carol might be an analogue to Superman, but she does not have all of Clark's important other abilities that often move him from merely 'invincible' to 'the hand of God smote the land with perfect accuracy'. You can still have her in physical conflicts with far fewer caveats and workarounds than someone like Superman.

Carol has overwhelming strength, firepower and durability, but she has not demonstrated she can use her speed on the battlefield with pinpoint precision: she might be able to go superluminal, but that does not necessarily translate into a DC-quality speedster who can pluck bullets out of the air and reliable intercept most or all incoming fire for their team-Thanos beat her to the punch with the time travel van, after all, and reaching it first should have been an Avengers victory. Carol also lacks the senses to interpret a large battlefield much better than an average person-no ridiculous super-hearing or awesome vision modes or telepathy to sort out the chaos, which means she needs teammates to help identify the important aspects of the battle. Not all of them will be as clear cut as 'smash the one big space ship bombarding Avengers headquarters, and then tackle the guy who looks disturbingly like the Thanos dude who you helped kill a few years back'.

There is still a vast gulf between Carol and a walking Plot Device; but the writers are going to have to stretch out their minds instead of tossing random events that are legitimate obstacles to other heroes that are squishier (ie most of them).

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:40:10 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120087: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:41:24 AM

Speaking of Superman, I still hope to never see the Sentry in the MCU.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#120088: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:42:40 AM

be funny if thats who Carol faces in her next movie..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120089: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:44:42 AM

[up][up][up] What I liked about the story of Captain Marvel, other than the self-discovery thing, was the discovery that the villains weren't who she thought they were. She's been told to hate the Skrulls, and the Skrulls are doing the sneaky shapeshifter thing, which is an evil trope if I've ever seen one, but when she stops to talk to them instead of trying to blast them, she figures out that they're refugees, not terrorists.

I know Goose is the memetic star of the film, but I believe that the character with the most depth is Talos.

Before you get on my case, anyone with a brain could see that the Kree Empire wasn't going to be the good guys, not least because we saw GotG, but that's a Doylist viewpoint. In-Universe, Carol has no reason to pick up on that, not until much later.

[up] Adam Warlock may be popping up at some point, but he's being set up as a GotG adversary, so who knows.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:48:09 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120090: Aug 12th 2020 at 9:49:01 AM

Generally, you are gonna be leery of anyone calling themselves an empire, really.

And I'd rather not see the Sentry. At least not before DC ever manages a good movie Superman.

Wake me up at your own risk.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#120092: Aug 12th 2020 at 10:48:31 AM

The "there's never been a good Superman movie" snark is honestly getting old. Especially in threads where it isn't even relevant.

Anyway, I've heard some rumors of Blue Marvel appearing in the MCU.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 12th 2020 at 10:51:01 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#120093: Aug 12th 2020 at 12:56:53 PM

Youtube host Readus 101 on why he thinks Nia Da Costa is the perfect choice to direct Captain Marvel 2 @6:41.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#120094: Aug 12th 2020 at 1:05:57 PM

I found Captain Marvel to be a rather basic movie so I’m hoping the sequel picks up & does something really interesting.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120095: Aug 12th 2020 at 1:18:53 PM

Captain Marvel was indeed pretty generic, allthough not bad.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120096: Aug 12th 2020 at 1:49:15 PM

Captain Marvel feels like a throwback to MCU Phase 1, where the plots and characters were relatively straightforward. This is actually kind of appropriate, since it's an origin story set in the past. Tonally, it fits right in with the original Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

Now that it's met with success, I have significant expectations for the next one.

[down] See, I exercised that same restraint. I wanted to comment about Man of Steel, but...

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 12th 2020 at 4:49:36 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#120097: Aug 12th 2020 at 1:49:23 PM

I'd argue that Man of Steel and at least two of the original Superman movies were good, but this is indeed the MCU thread.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#120098: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:05:15 PM

We don’t get Marvel animated films anymore sadly.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120099: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:12:48 PM

To be honest, none of them were really that good. DC has Marvel's number in this regard.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#120100: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:16:58 PM

Which is all the more funny given that Marvel is a subsidiary to Disney.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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