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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#120001: Aug 10th 2020 at 4:37:25 PM

It’s We Got This Covered, so grain of salt, but Twitter was reporting Shia “Just Do It” Lebouf is being considered to play Iceman.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#120002: Aug 10th 2020 at 4:50:13 PM

Yikes?

Or YIKES!

One Strip! One Strip!
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#120003: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:14:46 PM

Who's that? I remember that Cracked did an article slamming him for plagiarism once, but other than that nothing comes to mind.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120004: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:16:30 PM

The human protagonist of the first few Bayformers movies. Hopefully they remembered to write him as likable since then. Haven't seen anything with him lately.

Edited by Blueace on Aug 10th 2020 at 9:17:21 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#120005: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:23:35 PM

He's been doing arthouse films lately. He was in Honey Boy most recently.

In between gigs, he may or may not be a serial killer and cannibal. (lyrics may be NSFW)

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#120006: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:24:18 PM

Why would they cast Iceman if they haven't even announced an X-Men movie? Like is he just supposed to show up in the Eternals for a cameo or something?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#120007: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:44:56 PM

The source is from WGTC, who are NOTORIOUS for nonsensical "scoops".

I say disregard it.

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#120008: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:50:11 PM

Wanda and Pietro have more sympathetic reasons for working with hydra and they both show regret.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#120009: Aug 10th 2020 at 6:37:52 PM

[up][up] Indeed. No grain of salt, it's a entire mine.

Add to that how many times La Beouf has mentioned that he is done with blockbuster movies. They would really need to work hard to convince him to be part of a franchise if he's considered.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#120010: Aug 10th 2020 at 6:49:42 PM

It doesn't even really make sense given Bobby Drake tends to be portrayed as in his mid 20's at best, and often an actual teenager. Shia Labeouf is 34 year old and has made a point to show his age, often playing grizzled or rugged characters in the past few years.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#120011: Aug 10th 2020 at 6:53:49 PM

Iceman is likely to be among the youngest of the group. At least, he'll likely get the most babyfaced actor of any hypothetical team.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120012: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:00:46 PM

Tom Holland!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#120013: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:01:12 PM

Okay, I've asked this before, and didn't really get an answer, so I'll ask again: is there cannon proof that Wanda and Pietro knew they were signing up with HYDRA before the experiments started? Like a flashback scene where they discuss how joining HYDRA is worth getting a chance to take down Stark? Or anything? Because every time someone mentions Wanda I see assertions that she's worse than any other 'redeemed' female characters (and usually argue that she was never redeemed anyway)-all of whom have a lot more blood on their hands than Wanda does- because she Joined HYDRA Willingly, and therefore is a Bad Person. And if people are going to make that argument, I want unambiguous proof that they knew ahead of time *exactly* who they were getting in bed with and didn't care.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#120014: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:10:41 PM

Given that when we first saw them they were working with HYDRA, no one needs to prove that they weren't doing so of their own free will. It's not reasonable to conclude "they were working with HYDRA, but they were forced into it" without any reason to do so, because the audience is meant to conclude that what they see on screen is purposefully how they are intended to see it. If not given any reason to indicate otherwise, the audience must conclude that where characters are is where they intend to be and that the things they do are what they intend to do. Otherwise you can basically claim no character has agency at all.

This is a basic aspect of storytelling. If it were anything other than what we see onscreen, there would need to be some indication that the audience's conclusions are being misled, which the movie offers none of.

Because of that, it's actually the opposite way around from what you're claiming. If you want to push the idea that they weren't working with HYDRA willingly, you'd need proof that what we see onscreen is not what's actually going on behind the scenes. Otherwise you're dipping into "proving a negative" territory, and it's just spec and fanon.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 10th 2020 at 7:17:04 AM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#120015: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:26:50 PM

[up] Agreed.

While it's hard to say exactly what Wanda and Pietro knew about the organization they were joining and it's clear they were motivated more by a desire to get back at the people they saw as responsible for ruining their country then any belief in Hydra's official endgame, they were still volunteers as far as it matters.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#120016: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:57:59 PM

There was a tie-in comic that showed that Strucker and List recruited the Maximoffs from a group of protesters and offered to give them powers to help stablize their country. IIRC, they didn't know they were working for HYDRA when they first joined and it was only after the first few volunteers died during their experiments they did begin to having second thoughts.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#120017: Aug 10th 2020 at 7:58:05 PM

Yeah, I don't think they knew the organization they were joining was HYDRA, I think they were just told that there were experiments being done that could give them superpowers and they volunteered.

[up]Apparently, I was right.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 10th 2020 at 7:59:15 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120018: Aug 10th 2020 at 8:13:20 PM

No surprise that they ditch as soon as they can.

(And in fairness we saw them kept in sorta cells at the end of Winter Soldier)

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#120019: Aug 10th 2020 at 8:39:44 PM

Shia's a good actor when he's given the right material, so I have no doubt he'll do well if they do a different version of Iceman than what we're used to.

The legend has returned.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#120020: Aug 10th 2020 at 10:49:31 PM

[up][up]unfortunally they ditch hydra and join....Ultron, who is pretty much tony stark jr.

and them wanda date what can be call the son of tony stark(vision).

I really imagine wanda dosent try to think that very much.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#120021: Aug 10th 2020 at 10:52:12 PM

Then she ditched Ultron.

And ended up working for Tony.

Then she ditched Tony and thankfully ended up working for Cap who is neither a Nazi or a Tony Stark.

Finally: she made a good decision.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#120022: Aug 10th 2020 at 11:05:57 PM

Did she ever express remorse for working for Hydra, actually? As far as I remember, Hydra dissolved, and she ended up working with Ultron by default. She turned against Ultron after reading his mind in South Korea, but I don't think anybody's mentioned her Hydra affiliation since Sokovia.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#120023: Aug 11th 2020 at 5:08:21 AM

And she deliberately set the Hulk on a rampage into a highly populated city. Note Pietro wanted to just cut and run while Wanda wanted to set off Banner. Hard to tell if it was because she was still 'on mission' or wanted payback because she just got owned by Hawkeye.

Either way all those deaths are technically on her hands.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#120024: Aug 11th 2020 at 5:19:09 AM

> Either way all those deaths are technically on her hands.

Well,in the end Hulk killed all those people and she merely poked him into a rage

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#120025: Aug 11th 2020 at 5:24:01 AM

Lets not go there again.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

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