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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
People are really set on the Fantastic Four being the First Family
Although they're not held up in much esteem for that even in the comics because Namor, Captain America, Human Torch, a whole bunch of others, all existed first. And more and more stuff keeps getting jammed into the past.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThe interesting thing about the Fantastic Four in the 60's is that more than many other comic characters, they are very tied to their time period with the 60's space race and that post-nuclear era of super-science (the first issue of Fantastic Four came just about 8 months after Yuri Gagarin and Alan Shepard, the first Soviet and American men on space respectively), with their overall aesthetic still fitting pretty well in that time's Zeerust science-fiction encapsulated by programming like Lost in Space. Some of their rogues gallery in particular also fit in that era like a glove, like Doctor Doom's brand of tinpot dictatorship being more reminiscent of the tinpot dictators propped up all over the world during the Cold War to serve American interests and The aforementioned Red Ghost (AND HIS SUPER-APES!) being another in the proud tradition of Soviet supervillains (and the ape-supervillains wave of comics) from a bygone era. Even Mole-Man and his Morlocks are a very 60's concept reflecting the upswing of the Hollow Earth
theories that picked up steam in the western world with the UFO wave in the 50's and 60's.
Despite some features like First Avenger (40's), First Class (60's) and Captain Marvel (90's, but to a lesser extent), superhero period pieces are pretty rare, and I'm quite fond of imagining superheroes in the period they were originally envisioned for (particularly when they have some particular attachment to that period as the case is here). It just provides very interesting aesthetic and narrative possibilities that would otherwise be lost.
You could do a modern F4 emulating the 60's aesthetic to the bone, but if you're going through all that trouble you might as well go the whole nine yards and just set it in the 60's.
Many of us have read the masterworks of Marvel called Marvels
and it is interesting how that uses three sets of heroes for each period front-and-center: 40's gets The Invaders (Cap-Namor-Torch) and 50's-60's gets the Fantastic Four.
Edited by Gaon on Jul 27th 2020 at 1:00:29 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I mean, one could make the argument that Iron Man was tied into the Cold War period, with his original injuries taking place during the Vietnam War and having Soviet villains in his Rogues Gallery.
Apparently, there was discussion about whether to make the first Iron Man movie a period piece or not. But Favreau didn't want to do that and made the initial incident take place in Afghanistan to make it more contemporary note .
Edited by chasemaddigan on Jul 27th 2020 at 1:18:08 AM
But when we're talking about integrating the Fantastic Four into the MCU, then having the Fantastic Four active in the modern day is an inevitability, so arguing that they're so tied the time period that they might as well be a period piece, that doesn't seem like a good mindset to have about them. The Fantastic Four being a relic of a past age is completely opposite to the original themes. Also setting a movie in the MCU's past restricts the story in some ways, since the team's existence can't become widely known and there needs to be an excuse for them to wind up in the present day, so it's not a simple "might as well".
Other problem with making the F4 from the 60 is that Richards kwonledge will be outdated with today thecnology.
I can imagine now the banter againts Magneto
Magneto (Also coming from the 60's): Impossible, how I, the master of magnetism can't control your gun? I surrender.
Richards: Haha, sorry to dissapoint you Magneto, but with my incredible genious, I mastered the art of carpintery and built a wooden gun to defeat you.
Spidey: Uhm, you know that there is 3D printers, right? You could've printed a plastic gun and called it a day.
Black Panther: or use my vibranium guns, I don't mind.
Magneto and Richards: ...WHAT?!?!?!?!
I never said they have to be a 60's period piece, just that it would be a nice idea and one that I feel fits more with the F4 core narrative and aesthetic, but it's not a requirement.
I would have also liked a Iron Man period piece at the height of the Cold War (as I said, I simply quite like the concept of superhero period pieces), but I'd also like to note that Iron Man is a very easy character to adapt because the US government is to the bone built on death-dealing and war-profiteering since the times of the Indian Wars, and they're always doing that no matter the time period. It's not impossible (or even that difficult) to adapt the F4 to modern time (it is after all what the comics have been doing forever) but the fact is there's only been one Space Race.
The argument of "but if they have to exist in modern day, being from the 60's is pointless" also doesn't work. Cap being a time-displaced man of the 40's means he carried a 40's aesthetic with him throughout his entire character career (second movie even has him Break Out the Museum Piece to harken back to the old days), Star-Lord's ties to the 80's also follow him like the plague.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I can't see these two things being mutually exclusive, or even at all detrimental to. Loads of movies feature groups of characters who get lost in X or Y unfamiliar environment, and have to grow as characters and while learning how to parse through them. It's a basic characteristic of the adventure genre, for one.
The idea that putting characters in an unfamiliar environment would somehow make the writers incapable of introducing and managing those characters is a weird thing to say - especially given that the former is an aspect of the plot, and the latter is an aspect of characterization, and the entire point of plot is to provide a venue through which the characters can be developed.
Likewise. The point isn't to make the FF a period series, it's to give the characters a venue to have already been adventuring.
That's something that very different about the FF that would have to be taken into account if Marvel Studios is going to do them right. They're not traditional superheroes. Pretty much every attempt at a film to reimagine them as traditional superheroes has failed, in part because the characters, their origins and the threats they face don't really work optimally that way. They can do it, but it's not the best way to handle them, and it shows.
The FF are explorers. Their main draw is that they delve into weird and amazing situations, see things like an unbelievable underground world or the land that time forgot, or the literal past, or an entire negative dimension - or even the gothic kingdom of their despotic archenemy - and come through it back home to the other side. And when they stay home, they end up trapped in the Baxter Building or forced to encounter some strange new superscience or realize their kid is a reality warper and have to go through a long, involved adventure to figure that out. Genre wise, the FF are and have always been a bit more of a throwback than the rest of the characters featured in the MCU: they're a family of adventure story heroes with powers, not an actiony crime fighting super-team. More Flash Gordon than Superman. The "lost in space" shorthand isn't just for show, "Lost in Space" and its dynamics are actually a good shot of what the group's dynamics tend to look like.
"The FF went on an expedition in the past and were thought dead, but actually gained superpowers and have been on a quest to get back home" is just a very good idea to introduce that concept and the optimal kind of story for them without making too many waves in the MCU, as well as sidestepping the need for another origin story.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 27th 2020 at 3:01:35 AM
There have been two attempts at the Fantastic Four which both placed their origins in the modern day. While the failure of both attempts is more due to other errors regardless of their setting, I can see Marvel Studios attempting the 60s throwback route just to differentiate them from Fox's prior incarnations.
Marvel does seem to want to make their versions of these characters different from the ones that came before. It's likely the impetus behind Iron Boy Spiderman.
Of course, unlike Spiderman, Marvel and Disney fully own the characters rights, instead of having to share them with someone else because he's worth too much money but still.
One Strip! One Strip!Setting MCU F4 in the 60s would make crossovers kind of difficult. If their origin is that far in the past, there needs to be an explanation for their absence in the Avengers era, but the reason for that absence needs to be flexible enough for them to return for Avengers 5 or 6 or whenever.
One concept I like is that the F4 wouldn't be native to the MCU, and that they're instead dimensional explorers who entered the MCU at some point after Endgame. That way, you can have the best of both worlds by setting their origin in a retrofuturistic, silver agey dimension, and contrast that with the more grounded, cyberfantasy MCU.
What about the same one people have been saying? They were lost in the Negative Realm / The Savage Land / the Subterranean Kingdom / some other planet / etc, and the movie is about them finding a way to return home in the present day.
The Fantastic Four aren't just a superhero team, though. They're a full-on organization, with scientists and staff all over the Baxter Building, and they're highly public. If they did start their hero careers in the 60s before going missing, it's hard to imagine that neither they nor their organization would've been mentioned at any point.
I would say it's because Sony has Jared Leto as Morbius and Marvel Studios would want to steer clear of guys like Leto, who has an actual real life cult.
But if we are getting a TRON threequel with Leto in a lead role, and Marvel Studios wants to keep the Spider-Man aspect of the MCU intact, then... (*shrugs arms*)
I assume you mean Cult of Personality.
Or rather, I hope that's what you mean.
One Strip! One Strip!Ironic that the worst modern Joker is a terrible person, while the best modern Joker has worked in charity before.
I bet Corona put a damper on worship though.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 27th 2020 at 5:53:14 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Recently (relatively), yes. And Peter Parker owns a corporation (though iirc it's bankrupt currently, with the occasional hint that he's trying to reinvigorate it), but you're unlikely to ever see that in a film either.
Even in a very comics accurate depiction of the Fantastic Four to screen, we're unlikely to see much staff or support system beyond the main four, at least not before focusing on the essentials.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 27th 2020 at 6:55:23 AM
Speaking of superheroes with a full-on organization, that's something I noticed as a bit of a disconnect between Age of Ultron and Civil War. At the end of AOU, we see the Avengers Compound is fully staffed with technicians, security, foot soldiers, etc. It looked like a big place with a lot of people working there.
But when you watch Civil War, it's surprisingly sparse. We only really get to see the Avengers roam the facility and it seems oddly empty by comparison. Even when Clint helps break Wanda out, there doesn't seem to be anyone else there besides her and Vision. I know most of the scenes there didn't really need to show workers aside from the Avengers, but it does make the team look like they have less resources from we last saw them.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a flaw, it's just something interesting I noticed.

To be honest I don't see the appeal of setting Fantastic Four in the past. Everyone is suggesting ideas about how they could do it, but why should they? Just as little nod to the fact that the comics started in the 60s? Nearly every character in the MCU debuted in the 60s. The ship has long since sailed on the Fantastic Four having the same foundational role in the MCU that they have in the comics, and having the Fantastic Four debut in a world already full of superheroes could be an interesting spin on the team in itself.