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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#119576: Jul 27th 2020 at 6:38:02 AM

So the villains that should not be used in future Spider-Man movies based on what we said are: Green Goblin (both Norman and Harry), Dr. Octopus, Sandman, Venom (since he's in his own franchise anyway), Lizard, Electro, and Rhino.

The legend has returned.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#119577: Jul 27th 2020 at 6:46:17 AM

Oh, no. I do hope we get a proper goblin and Otto at some point. Just not immediately.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#119578: Jul 27th 2020 at 7:01:20 AM

Can’t really outdo spectacular’s goblin

Steve Blum! Rhyme schemes!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#119579: Jul 27th 2020 at 7:05:23 AM

[up][up][up] Should we include Morbius in that list since he's getting his own movie, too? Or is he more associated with Blade at this point?

Would Marvel Studios even let Blade vs. Morbius be a thing in the future? Feels like something Sony would want pretty badly.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#119580: Jul 27th 2020 at 7:09:19 AM

I was only looking at the theatrical Spider-Man movies that weren't a part of the MCU or Spider-Verse (so the Raimi trilogy and the Amazing Spider-Man movies).

The legend has returned.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119581: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:10:44 AM

TBH, I think I might prefer to see Norman first show up against the Avengers in a (loose) adaptation of Dark Reign.

Have him still be Spidey centric by having Spider-Man be the one to discover something is off about him and try to stop him, while part of the plot involves him trying stop Spider-Man before he can discover what he's really up to and inform the others. But then Spidey does (maybe at personal cost), and it becomes him vs everyone, with Spidey getting the final blow on him but it really being a full Avengers experience.

It'd be a big departure from his comics role as archenemy first and then universe-wide threat, but it'd free up the next movie to not just be another Goblin story.

I mean, I guess I'm of two minds about it, because I really, really want to see Marvel actually do a comics accurate version Goblin, and I respect - and have even been the one to support in the past - the "they're the archenemy, they have to show up at least once" mindset, but we've just had so much Goblin thus far and he comes with such necessary plot and baggage that it runs together.

VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#119582: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:24:17 AM

Why on Earth would they not do Blade vs Morbius?

Me, I think the first two MCU Fantastic Four movies should be set in the 60s.

For the first one, the Four test a prototype rocket of Reed's design, get zapped by radiation, and develop superpowers.

Maybe the radiation is from a Kree ship exiting warp space, come to track down Skrulls hiding on Earth (tie-in to the events of Captain Marvel). Upon learning that human society has been infiltrated by shape-shifting alien lizard people, Ben or Johnny should quip "And to think Senator McCarthy was worried about communists." The Four help the Skrulls escape the Kree, with the final boss being Super-Skrull, who in this movie is a brainwashed Kree minion. The Four defeat him because they're a family but Super-Skrull fights alone. This might even spur the formation of SHIELD.

In the post-credits scene, Doctor Doom watches a news report and crushes a goblet in his hands, growling "Richards...."

The second movie takes place a couple of years later, when the Four are celebrities. Doom realises that America has alien technology and steals some in order to make, like, a death ray or something. The Four defeat Doom, but at the last, they are cast into some sort of timeless void.

In the mid-credits scene, they are pulled out of the void into the modern day by the current Avengers roster... and Doom is among the Avengers. The Four want to fight him but the other Avengers stop them, explaining that they need to work together. Doom gestures toward a viewscreen showing something approaching Earth which comics fans will recognise. Galactus is coming.

This leads into the next Avengers movie, featuring the Fantastic Four and the Guardians of the Galaxy, which is about Galactus trying to eat Earth.

After that, the Four can have a movie or two in the modern day, and possibly also solo movies.

Ukrainian Red Cross
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119583: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:27:52 AM

Me, I think the first two MCU Fantastic Four movies should be set in the 60s.

I agree - or if not the 80's, then at least in the past. Have the FF have been lost in space decades ago, thought, dead, but instead it turns out they've been having Lost In Space style adventures throughout the cosmos and multiverse, trying to get home.

And the big conflict comes when they do get home, and bring something with them.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#119584: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:31:09 AM

I understand the concept of having the Fantastic Four be 60s era astronauts, since it would at least vary up the origin a bit. But I'm curious about how that would effect Doom in the MCU. If you want to keep the part of his backstory about him and Reed being college rivals, then Doom has to go with them to Negative Zone or wherever they get trapped. Otherwise, he'd have to be in his 80s by the time the Four return to the present day.

I guess you could say "Well, he used magic or science to make himself youthful", but that just raises the question of why he can't use to restore his face or something.

I like the idea, but I feel this would lead to another film where Doom is a part of the origin story. I dunno, maybe there are other ways around it that I'm not thinking of.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119585: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:33:51 AM

Plus, how could the Thing be around in the 60's and not be as well known as Captain America? It'd be impossible.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#119586: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:44:16 AM

My pitch for the F4 movie was that they went to space during the space race of the 1960's, in direct competition with the Soviet program of the Red Ghost (AND HIS SUPER-APES!) and have been stuck in some kind of space anomaly ever since, both teams presumed lost during that time. So the movie would be them having a series of wild adventures in the unknown edges of space looking to return home while competing with Red Ghost (AND HIS SUPER-APES!) before in the end they set their differences aside so both can return home, and surprise, when they return home its current year for space-time-shenanigans.

Second movie they would explore the Hollow Earth and the Mole-Man's underground kingdom.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119587: Jul 27th 2020 at 10:50:00 AM

Plus, how could the Thing be around in the 60's and not be as well known as Captain America? It'd be impossible.

Not if they were all lost in space.

Yeah, [up] this.

Or simply kept secret. Ant-Man was around in the 70's in the MCU and nobody knew about him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 27th 2020 at 10:52:19 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119588: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:02:57 AM

Antman is a lot easier to hide, for obvious reasons.

You'd be hard pressed to not have multiple witnesses to Ben Grimm and his daily clobbering hours.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#119589: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:06:41 AM

Well, supposedly, Goliah was active, too.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#119590: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:11:03 AM

The Fantastic Four has an actual invisibility master in their team, I'd like to note.

In either case, I much prefer them Lost in Space. Even better if their flight took place during November, 1961 (the date of the first issue of F4).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119591: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:23:21 AM

....Damn. Forgot about Sue and how stupid powerful she is. They could pretty easily be a stealth team. Sure, You can see the results of what they do (Ben and Johnny will leave a mess behind them) but with Sue's force fields, you wouldn't see them doing it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#119592: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:26:55 AM

A few years ago a pissed off Sue took on the entire Avengers.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119593: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:27:50 AM

I can buy that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#119594: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:28:16 AM

Hell hath no fury..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119595: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:31:48 AM

Well all for the four are dangerous.

Johnny has the most destructive potential, Sue is straight up the most powerful (in that her abilities can be used in any variety of ways, including killing you in ways that are entirely impossible to defend against), Reed can build anything, anything, anything under the sun to wreck your shit...

...Ben's probably the most straight forward, and might be the actual weakest. Sure, he's strong and tough, but there are a lot of dudes who're stronger and tougher. That being said, when Ben Grimm is on the scene it's clobbering time all the damn time, and he knows how to put that strength to good use as well.

That's why they're such a great team. They cover each other quite well.

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#119596: Jul 27th 2020 at 11:56:07 AM

I don't like the "Fantastic Four are from the past" idea that everyone seems so fond of, for a few different reasons.

1) If you set their debut movie entirely in the past, then you need to keep them a secret from the public, which is not only difficult for at least one of them to do, but also anathema to their whole vibe and style, where they're very public about who they are and what they do.

2) Meanwhile, if their debut movie has them being transported away from 1960's Earth (either immediately to the present day, or on some lost in space adventure) then I think you'd be throwing too much at us too fast. An FF movie would need to develop an ensemble cast of characters and show them adapting to how they've been physically transformed into superhumans (each in a different way). If that happens simultaneously with making them Fish out of Water, you're likely to wind up with a movie that spends so much time on the introduction and adjusting to new circumstances phase, their won't be much time left for them to actually do stuff as the Fantastic Four.

3) Given the present state of the MCU, with Earth having suffered several alien invasions, and Nick Fury now expanding into some space based agency, there's ample setup for recreating the Space Race motivations that drove the Fantastic Four in their debut issues.

4) Honestly? Treating scientific exploration, done with a spirit of optimism and sense of wonder, as something you can only get from the now-distant past? That's a very dispiriting message.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#119597: Jul 27th 2020 at 12:13:34 PM

Meanwhile, if their debut movie has them being transported away from 1960's Earth (either immediately to the present day, or on some lost in space adventure) then I think you'd be throwing too much at us too fast. An FF movie would need to develop an ensemble cast of characters and show them adapting to how they've been physically transformed into superhumans (each in a different way). If that happens simultaneously with making them Fish out of Water, you're likely to wind up with a movie that spends so much time on the introduction and adjusting to new circumstances phase, their won't be much time left for them to actually do stuff as the Fantastic Four.

Could pull a Captain America and have the first movie take place entirely or near entirely in the past.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#119598: Jul 27th 2020 at 12:21:01 PM

We already had stories set in the past for both Captains before bringing them to the present. I'm not sure it would be very original to do that with the FF.

Of course they could also pull a Spiderman and drop them into the story with little explanation, but I'd still like an origin story for them.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#119599: Jul 27th 2020 at 12:26:26 PM

Another benefit to having them debut in the present: since superheroes are a well-known phenomena at this point in the MCU, when the Four get their powers, you can skip over a lot of the incredulous "how is this possible?" stuff, and get right to them accepting superpowers as a fact of life.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?

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